2009-09-05T06:40:59 OK. 2009-09-05T06:41:24 Welcome everybody! 2009-09-05T06:41:30 *** Arrow has joined #SW-Meeting 2009-09-05T06:41:56 We don't have a super huge agenda today, so this meeting shouldn't take long. 2009-09-05T06:42:09 Just want to update everyone as to the status of things. 2009-09-05T06:42:33 Obviously, we're having a mini-crisis but I alerted people by voice mail, and it looks like things are on their way to getting resolved. 2009-09-05T06:43:04 It makes me realize that I need to have a better back up plan if something goes wrong, so that's my responsibility and an action item for me to take care of. 2009-09-05T06:43:14 Thanks to Prod for looking into it, as well as Dan and Matt who aren't here. 2009-09-05T06:43:37 The next thing is the status of ABXY LLC, 2009-09-05T06:43:48 I believe most of you are familiar with the name Howard Ha by now. 2009-09-05T06:43:57 He is very eager to begin working with us, 2009-09-05T06:44:05 and we're pushing the operating agreement through, 2009-09-05T06:44:18 so he is looking forward to working his magic, and I am very interested to see what he can do. 2009-09-05T06:44:36 One of his first objectives is to nail down the agreement for the purchase of GamerWiki. 2009-09-05T06:44:46 So with any luck, we may be owning and operating it by the end of the month. 2009-09-05T06:45:18 Other than that, I don't personally have a lot of development news. But once Howard starts working with us, 2009-09-05T06:45:27 he assures me that a lot will happen in very little time, 2009-09-05T06:45:34 and I'll be sure to let everyone know about everything. 2009-09-05T06:45:46 Prod, do you have any notices? 2009-09-05T06:45:57 nope 2009-09-05T06:46:16 we're still growing quite well 2009-09-05T06:46:46 Yes. I noticed we have the usual "back to school" dip 2009-09-05T06:46:52 We get that every year. 2009-09-05T06:46:56 yes 2009-09-05T06:47:07 But, comparing our traffic from last year to this year, the same time, we're going great. 2009-09-05T06:47:33 Well, then I suppose we can get right to the only agenda item, 2009-09-05T06:47:44 MediaWiki and extension updates 2009-09-05T06:47:53 Prod, would you like to kick this off? 2009-09-05T06:47:58 sure 2009-09-05T06:48:30 I wasn't able to get the mediawiki updates in last month, but as we now have a long weekend 2009-09-05T06:48:39 i'm going so see if i can get it in tomorrow or so 2009-09-05T06:48:58 this should include extension updates to anything that has one, in addition to moving to the latest MW 2009-09-05T06:49:08 which is 1.15.1 2009-09-05T06:49:35 there are changelogs online 2009-09-05T06:49:41 if anyone is interested in seeing what's new 2009-09-05T06:49:55 Any highlights worth mentioning? 2009-09-05T06:50:05 it's a new version :D 2009-09-05T06:50:14 there's some security related fixes 2009-09-05T06:50:32 they're change list is fairly large 2009-09-05T06:50:33 http://svn.wikimedia.org/svnroot/mediawiki/tags/REL1_15_0/phase3/RELEASE-NOTES 2009-09-05T06:50:42 lol 2009-09-05T06:50:51 their * 2009-09-05T06:51:06 OK, well, slightly related, but slightly off-topic, has anyone noticed Wikia's new rich-text editor? 2009-09-05T06:51:13 Yeah, it sucks. 2009-09-05T06:51:18 Please PLEASE don't implement it. 2009-09-05T06:51:21 yeah, don't use it though 2009-09-05T06:51:26 lol 2009-09-05T06:51:35 It leaves all sorts of weird cruft behind. 2009-09-05T06:51:43 ah 2009-09-05T06:51:47 Prod: wrong link 2009-09-05T06:51:54 http://svn.wikimedia.org/svnroot/mediawiki/branches/REL1_15/phase3/RELEASE-NOTES 2009-09-05T06:52:02 I was wondering if anyone else noticed it. Garrett brought it to my attention. 2009-09-05T06:52:05 the tags is for a specific version, in that case 1.15.0 2009-09-05T06:52:24 the front page link sent me there :P 2009-09-05T06:52:37 Procyon: FCKeditor doesn't support templates 2009-09-05T06:52:42 aka it would suck on our site 2009-09-05T06:52:55 Skiz: Good point. 2009-09-05T06:53:29 I wasn't going to suggest we implement it (even if we could... probably proprietary), just wondering if people noticed it, and what they thought about it. 2009-09-05T06:53:35 Consensus seems pretty clear. 2009-09-05T06:53:46 Wiki markup is already dumb enough. 2009-09-05T06:53:51 lol 2009-09-05T06:54:10 it's open source, it just stinks 2009-09-05T06:54:17 Prod: Anything else about the extensions? 2009-09-05T06:54:24 Or does anyone have any questions concerning them? 2009-09-05T06:54:29 One thing they do have that's good is auto category thing at the bottom of the page. 2009-09-05T06:54:40 i was about to mention that :) 2009-09-05T06:55:16 that was one interesting extension they have 2009-09-05T06:55:21 but i'm not sure if it would be good for us 2009-09-05T06:55:25 or just make a mess of things 2009-09-05T06:55:34 Need to disable it for subpages. 2009-09-05T06:56:00 It's really only good if you know what category you want already. 2009-09-05T06:56:11 It autofills what you start and makes sure it's typed correctly. 2009-09-05T06:56:26 People that don't know what category use wouldn't be helped by a huge list of all our cats. 2009-09-05T06:56:36 Said extension can be modified to adapt towards autofilling the header/footer navs as well. 2009-09-05T06:56:58 I think the work we've done to add cats from the Infobox has been very helpful. 2009-09-05T06:57:07 Like a list of all the subpages of the guide? 2009-09-05T06:57:24 najzere: we already have that 2009-09-05T06:57:39 That was meant for Sigma. 2009-09-05T06:58:02 Just wondering how Footer Navs would be helped. 2009-09-05T06:58:30 personally, I'm against installing wikia extensions 2009-09-05T06:58:39 Does anyone have any general comments or suggestions they would like to make? 2009-09-05T06:58:42 for reasons I don't want to delve into on a publicly logged channel 2009-09-05T06:58:48 :D 2009-09-05T06:58:56 I do. 2009-09-05T06:58:58 there's a few other things that need to be changed on the backend though 2009-09-05T06:59:01 Briefly. 2009-09-05T06:59:11 Naj: go for it. 2009-09-05T06:59:18 Prod, you have more? 2009-09-05T07:00:06 go ahea 2009-09-05T07:00:07 d 2009-09-05T07:00:19 Okay, well I just wanted to mention that some policy stuff has changed/been added. 2009-09-05T07:00:26 So if you get a chance, take a look and comment on it. 2009-09-05T07:00:35 for example? 2009-09-05T07:00:38 Specifically: Scope, Languages, External Links 2009-09-05T07:00:58 Yeah, good job by you, NMH, and whoever else contributed to that. 2009-09-05T07:01:12 Also, collapsible elements discussion on the staff lounge is still open. 2009-09-05T07:01:19 This all started when NMH wanted to add a game that seemed slightly out of scope. 2009-09-05T07:01:25 And is there any word on MultipleExtensions? 2009-09-05T07:01:33 o.O 2009-09-05T07:01:34 It was a worthwhile endeavor. 2009-09-05T07:01:39 MultipleUpload* 2009-09-05T07:01:40 Haha 2009-09-05T07:01:47 that'll be at the same time as the mw upgrade 2009-09-05T07:01:54 sometimes these extensions aren't backwards compatible 2009-09-05T07:01:57 * Procyon has gotten so used to living without MultiUp :P 2009-09-05T07:02:03 Heh. 2009-09-05T07:02:07 it's like riding a bike ;) 2009-09-05T07:02:17 MultiUpload is the training wheels? 2009-09-05T07:02:24 Yeah, Scope is probably the biggest one and has been severely loosened up. 2009-09-05T07:02:31 In regards to notability. 2009-09-05T07:02:38 Prod: btw, install Gadgets while you're at it 2009-09-05T07:02:40 So take a look at it and make changes where needed or discuss them. 2009-09-05T07:02:50 Skiz: What are some good Gadgets? 2009-09-05T07:03:12 well, we could copy a few from wikipedia, but I had some ideas for others that haven't been written yet 2009-09-05T07:03:12 (Skizzerz): elaborate? 2009-09-05T07:03:38 Gadgets is an extension that allows sysops to add javascript scripts to be enabled and disabled per-user via Preferences 2009-09-05T07:03:49 ah yes 2009-09-05T07:04:01 Skiz: Which ones do you like? 2009-09-05T07:04:02 so instead of someone having to copy/paste a script into BlueCloud.js, they can just toggle a checkbox in Preferences 2009-09-05T07:04:14 if we enable that 2009-09-05T07:04:23 there has to be an approval process before new scripts are added 2009-09-05T07:04:45 of course 2009-09-05T07:04:58 o_O 2009-09-05T07:05:11 as a start I was thinking about the script that adds an edit section link for the top section 2009-09-05T07:05:17 * Procyon wonders what some of the better Gadgets are... 2009-09-05T07:05:21 a lot of people would benefit from that one 2009-09-05T07:05:33 yea, as long as it looks nice :) 2009-09-05T07:05:37 ooooh. I see. 2009-09-05T07:06:05 Anything else? 2009-09-05T07:06:39 Skiz? 2009-09-05T07:07:05 er... OK 2009-09-05T07:07:10 Guess not. 2009-09-05T07:07:23 hmm, sorry 2009-09-05T07:07:25 Does anyone else have any concerns or topics they would like to raise? 2009-09-05T07:07:28 was preoccupied with other things 2009-09-05T07:07:34 no problem ^_^ 2009-09-05T07:07:36 but I don't have any other concerns I can think of at the moment 2009-09-05T07:07:47 Alright. 2009-09-05T07:07:57 Well, then like I said, this was a considerably short meeting :) 2009-09-05T07:08:04 But well attended, and I really appreciate it. 2009-09-05T07:08:09 Summer's nearly over, 2009-09-05T07:08:14 School's back in... 2009-09-05T07:08:28 And some developments should start taking place. 2009-09-05T07:08:39 as a breif note 2009-09-05T07:08:41 I will keep everyone informed as things trickle in. 2009-09-05T07:08:48 we exceeded 1M pageviews a day last month 2009-09-05T07:08:56 per week * 2009-09-05T07:09:12 nice! ^_^ 2009-09-05T07:09:29 900,000 MapleStory views, sweet! 2009-09-05T07:09:38 lmao... 2009-09-05T07:09:39 sadly 2009-09-05T07:09:52 you may be right. 2009-09-05T07:10:10 maplestory is a large percentage of our traffic 2009-09-05T07:10:13 Any update on Teddy's new look for the site? 2009-09-05T07:10:14 But that's why it's important to build up content while MS still brings us a lot of traffic. 2009-09-05T07:10:26 Whenever the day comes that MS goes the way of the dinosaur, 2009-09-05T07:10:28 how is that sad? It means that our guide is like the definitive source for MapleStory info, and there are a LOT of MS fansites out there with guides 2009-09-05T07:10:44 Hopefully we'll have built up a significant presence that the loss of the MS traffic won't be too noticeable. 2009-09-05T07:10:50 Naj: no, not yet. 2009-09-05T07:10:57 even right now, we'd still be doing ok without MS traffic 2009-09-05T07:11:04 Once the negotiations for GW reopen, 2009-09-05T07:11:08 we have started to show we have good info on other guides 2009-09-05T07:11:19 I will encourage him to present some concepts to us. 2009-09-05T07:11:20 Is there another game like that? 2009-09-05T07:11:31 Maybe we could start another huge guide for even more traffic. 2009-09-05T07:11:32 mount & blade is our 2nd most popular 2009-09-05T07:11:51 There are plenty of MMOs... the trick is encouraging a community to choose SW as their point of information. 2009-09-05T07:12:10 MMO players seem to prefer an isolated wiki about their game. 2009-09-05T07:12:11 people like our ragnarok guide 2009-09-05T07:12:20 but it's unforunately a dead game, so not much traffic 2009-09-05T07:12:31 That's why I started to consider if it would be worth giving MMOs their own SW URL. 2009-09-05T07:12:35 we've got a very good Exteel guide, but that game is also fairly small 2009-09-05T07:13:00 I.E. Would a Conan MMO player prefer visiting conan.strategywiki.org instead of strategywiki.org/wiki/conan 2009-09-05T07:13:20 It's so stupid, but that's how some people think. 2009-09-05T07:13:29 Could they have their own look? 2009-09-05T07:13:39 Like black background or whatever? 2009-09-05T07:14:00 I don't see why we couldn't skin them differently, but it wouldn't be user generated. We'd have to ask Teddy to do something for each site. 2009-09-05T07:14:03 I don't think he would mind, 2009-09-05T07:14:12 Then we'd be like Wikia 2009-09-05T07:14:13 but then how do you alert users to that fact? 2009-09-05T07:14:14 Would the developers have to make a new subdomain every time a new MMO is added? 2009-09-05T07:14:29 Rocky: Unfortunately, essentially yes. 2009-09-05T07:14:49 Wow, you're talking about a radically different approach here. 2009-09-05T07:14:51 Which is the undesirable bit... 2009-09-05T07:14:55 Yeah... 2009-09-05T07:15:00 But the question is, 2009-09-05T07:15:02 If it works though... 2009-09-05T07:15:03 :) 2009-09-05T07:15:17 would this radically different approach be enough to encourage more users to visit us for an MMO? 2009-09-05T07:15:19 It's weird, 2009-09-05T07:15:21 because 2009-09-05T07:15:42 no one would expect to visit Batman.Arkham.Assylum.straregywiki.org. 2009-09-05T07:15:51 But MMO players feel their game is a world unto itself. 2009-09-05T07:15:57 Look at FFXIcyclopedia 2009-09-05T07:16:20 How much of the success of MS relies on having its own admin? 2009-09-05T07:16:24 There's no reason why we couldn't host that information (and it's a shitload) 2009-09-05T07:16:35 That's a very good point too. 2009-09-05T07:16:44 well, users finding out about the subdomain would largely be through search engines 2009-09-05T07:16:45 Isaac is crucial to keeping that content clean. 2009-09-05T07:17:03 Subdomaining might make guide-specific admin a possibility. 2009-09-05T07:17:14 I see what you mean. 2009-09-05T07:17:31 I will pitch the concept to Howard, and see what he thinks. 2009-09-05T07:17:39 could we make strategywiki.org/wiki/conan a redirect? 2009-09-05T07:17:54 We'd have to I imagine. 2009-09-05T07:18:10 That's a possibility, but then how would search engines find it? 2009-09-05T07:18:13 unless the wiki can stand on it's own 2009-09-05T07:18:23 we lose out on having everything in one place 2009-09-05T07:18:39 and we lose out on people finding other games they like on the site 2009-09-05T07:18:44 And that is a big drawbrack. 2009-09-05T07:19:05 I'm sure we could put a big strategywiki linked image at the top of any sub-wikis. 2009-09-05T07:19:09 It's basically "our psychology" of being all-inclusive vs. "their psychology" of being stand-alone. 2009-09-05T07:19:22 (najzere): that would still have the same losses 2009-09-05T07:19:27 najzere: there are only two ways to have guide specific admins: totally seperate wikis for each subdomain, or an extension 2009-09-05T07:19:36 Maple Story users obviously don't mind sharing... 2009-09-05T07:19:58 The other possibility is simply to register conan.strategywiki.org and just redirect it to strategywiki.org/wiki/conan 2009-09-05T07:20:17 Maybe we're overestimating how badly stand-alone is desired. 2009-09-05T07:20:18 Not sure how much that would help, but once they're in, they're in, who cares how they got there... 2009-09-05T07:20:24 If the guide's really good... 2009-09-05T07:20:27 Naj: Admittedly, I may be. 2009-09-05T07:20:44 Well, at lease MS proves it CAN work the way we do it. 2009-09-05T07:21:03 least* 2009-09-05T07:21:08 Good point ^_^ 2009-09-05T07:21:37 I think a lot of what MMO players prefer about the stand-alone approach is simply the "window dressing" 2009-09-05T07:22:01 They'd rather view info surrounded by imagery from their favorite MMO than a generic wiki decoration. 2009-09-05T07:22:03 *** Prod has quit IRC 2009-09-05T07:22:07 Aww :( 2009-09-05T07:22:14 He's disgusted by this topic. 2009-09-05T07:22:22 *** Prod has joined #SW-Meeting 2009-09-05T07:22:27 welcome back Prod 2009-09-05T07:22:41 *** ChanServ sets mode: +qo Prod Prod 2009-09-05T07:22:44 Alright, well, I don't have anything else. 2009-09-05T07:23:04 I do 2009-09-05T07:23:17 Who here does NOT have an alexa toolbar installed on their browser? 2009-09-05T07:23:22 Me. 2009-09-05T07:23:26 * najzere puts up his hand. 2009-09-05T07:23:27 me 2009-09-05T07:23:27 if you don't, get one :) 2009-09-05T07:23:38 there are firefox extensions as well 2009-09-05T07:23:43 What's it do? 2009-09-05T07:23:44 Oh wow... I had that, then I reinstalled and I forgot. 2009-09-05T07:23:46 by having the toolbar, you are creating more of an impact on the alexa ranking for our site 2009-09-05T07:24:12 Just out of curiosity, is there any such similar extension for Google? 2009-09-05T07:24:24 pagerank doesn't count views 2009-09-05T07:24:29 it only counts links 2009-09-05T07:24:41 http://www.alexa.com/toolbar for the toolbar download 2009-09-05T07:25:01 hmm... 2009-09-05T07:25:33 https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/321 2009-09-05T07:25:38 that's the firefox extension 2009-09-05T07:25:41 Good point Skiz, thanks for raising that. 2009-09-05T07:25:42 in the past 3 months, our alexa rank increased by almost 3000 2009-09-05T07:26:00 by having more of our regulars get the toolbar, we can increase that even more 2009-09-05T07:26:10 Prod: Are you sure? 2009-09-05T07:26:16 yes 2009-09-05T07:26:17 That extension is not purely Alexa. 2009-09-05T07:26:18 ok 2009-09-05T07:26:28 correct 2009-09-05T07:26:32 it also has compete.com 2009-09-05T07:28:06 Any test SW recently? 2009-09-05T07:28:12 I just did. 2009-09-05T07:28:16 Not loading. 2009-09-05T07:28:40 :/ same 2009-09-05T07:28:50 OK, we can discuss this immediate issue on #SW 2009-09-05T07:29:04 In the mean time, I think we can bring this meeting to a close unless anyone else has any last comments. 2009-09-05T07:29:09 Thanks for the meeting Procyon! 2009-09-05T07:30:04 Thanks for coming! 2009-09-05T07:30:25 Have a great weekend everyone. Enjoy the holiday if you celebrate.