May 02 13:05:25 OK, May 02 13:05:32 I appreciate everyone being here. May 02 13:06:23 Basically, May 02 13:06:50 OK, May 02 13:06:55 I'm changing tactics. May 02 13:07:02 Who hear doesn't know Brandon? May 02 13:07:08 me May 02 13:07:16 <~Prod> aka echelon May 02 13:07:20 echelon May 02 13:07:31 oh May 02 13:07:37 OK, well then this will make sense to most of you. May 02 13:07:55 * Melon247 guesses this is the serious note May 02 13:08:08 Everyone kind of knows about the events which occurred upon his return back in January. May 02 13:08:49 err... May 02 13:08:50 Mostly thanks to Prod's efforts, we were able to reach a happy compromise with him. May 02 13:08:55 Oh good, Teddy is online. May 02 13:09:41 Things seemed to look good at that point, because it seemed like we not only had his blessing, but we would also have his continued participation. May 02 13:09:44 oh, I see what you mean now May 02 13:10:01 * Sigma7 has joined #SW-Meeting May 02 13:10:07 Well, he was invited to this meeting today, May 02 13:10:16 along with another important meeting, May 02 13:10:21 Prod has contacted him, May 02 13:10:25 I have contacted him, May 02 13:10:39 and he doesn't bother showing up? :O May 02 13:10:48 and while he had responded intermitantly, he hasn't made it to these meetings. May 02 13:10:50 Now, granted, May 02 13:11:00 he has some important things going on in his life, May 02 13:11:08 some family related health concerns, May 02 13:11:11 * Teddy has joined #SW-Meeting May 02 13:11:19 and his education, which should and do take a higher priority. May 02 13:12:11 But ever since he returned, I have been trying to walk a tightrope between furthering SW's ambitions, and not wanting to upset echelon in anyway. May 02 13:12:34 Thanks to some conversations that I have had with a number of you, May 02 13:13:01 I've decided that what I really want is to prioritize SW's development over echelon's feelings. May 02 13:13:14 It actually makes me feel kind of bad to say something like that. May 02 13:13:31 It's not really the way that I am, and I really do care about echelon and what he's going through right now, May 02 13:14:04 and a number of us have been trying to work with him, and get him to understand that we want his involvement, we want him to participate, and we genuinely care about what he feels. May 02 13:14:17 But we can't force him to communicate with us. May 02 13:14:38 So, that puts us in our current position. May 02 13:14:57 There are a number of growth opportunities that are in front of SW right now, May 02 13:15:21 and due to the situation with echelon, our ability to pursue them is unclear. May 02 13:15:32 so we need his permissin? May 02 13:15:38 Not necessarily. May 02 13:15:46 Not for everything, May 02 13:15:47 permission* May 02 13:15:59 but for the things that matter, it would be helpful to know his opinion of them. May 02 13:16:18 For example, May 02 13:16:39 there is a gentleman that I have spoken with at length, and Prod has also been able to communicate. May 02 13:16:53 He is someone with 10 years of experience running a video game website and community, May 02 13:17:08 and he has identified SW as something he would like to invest in and help promote. May 02 13:17:36 The problem is that, from his position, with our very ownership of the site in question, May 02 13:18:03 It is, at the moment, and risky and unwise choice for him to contribute to us. May 02 13:18:19 In order to remove that risk, May 02 13:18:39 we need to shore up our position, and solidify things with echelon. May 02 13:18:50 One possibility that I wanted to bring up to all of you, May 02 13:18:59 was the possibility of changing domains. May 02 13:19:03 It's not the only possibility, May 02 13:19:22 * Arrow has joined #SW-Meeting May 02 13:19:39 but I wanted to get a sense for all of you how strongly for or against that kind of drastic move you all would be. May 02 13:19:47 _IF_ we were to do it, May 02 13:19:53 and it's a big if, May 02 13:20:09 we have a plan in place that would minimize the impact of such a move, May 02 13:20:54 and the ultimate result of it would be the SW would not disappear, but return to the sole ownership and control of echelon, while we fork the database and relaunch somewhere else. May 02 13:21:12 Like I said, there are other options out there, May 02 13:21:22 and I've gotten opinions from some of you already, May 02 13:21:26 <~Prod> This is essentially our worst case option May 02 13:21:43 but I wanted to take this opportunity to present it to you, the community, and allow a discussion for it. May 02 13:22:25 I realize that some of you may not care quite as intensely about where the site exists, just as long as it exists in some fashion somewhere on the web. May 02 13:22:51 But if you do feel any stronger than that, May 02 13:22:59 this is your opportunity to voice your opinion. May 02 13:23:03 <~Prod> to note May 02 13:23:06 <~Prod> if this occurrs May 02 13:23:14 <~Prod> the site will not be strategywiki anymore May 02 13:23:17 <~Prod> it will be renamed May 02 13:23:34 will it also depart from ABXY? May 02 13:23:53 That question is actually difficult to answer. May 02 13:24:02 I personally think that the owner should be all the beauracrats May 02 13:24:18 but I don't want SW to get a new name... :/ May 02 13:24:26 Melon: It's not quite that simple. May 02 13:25:29 I, too, would like for strategywiki to remain as such, if at all possible. By going to a different site, we are effectively relinquishing all of the hard work that we put into building the public knowledge of strategywiki up to where it is May 02 13:25:32 <~Prod> (Melon247): that hinges upon echelon's participation May 02 13:25:44 but, knowing ech... that may not be possible May 02 13:26:00 Just because echelon doesn't necessarily participate in the site's operation, does not mean that he has forfitted any rights to the site, regardless of how great or small those rights may be. May 02 13:26:14 Skiz: no, hang on, May 02 13:26:28 We would be taking a copy of the database with us. May 02 13:26:35 <~Prod> "public knowledge" May 02 13:26:36 I know, but I'm talking about the domain name May 02 13:26:43 leave him a big, long note on his talk page and wait ages to see if he replies May 02 13:26:47 <~Prod> ie. our brand May 02 13:26:52 e.g. the ads in DoubleJump books, the various links everywhere else, etc. May 02 13:26:59 <~Prod> (Melon247): we've emailed, called, texted, phoned May 02 13:27:02 all of those would have to be changed, if possible May 02 13:27:03 Melon: Better efforts than that have been made. May 02 13:27:11 Skiz: I gotcha. That is true. May 02 13:27:28 Let me give you the worst case scenario comparisons. May 02 13:27:33 and, perhaps more importantly, our place in the search engine results May 02 13:28:07 In the worst case scenario, we stay at SW and do nothing but add more knowledge to the database, and make no further partnerships or anything than what we have reached today. May 02 13:28:33 The question becomes, May 02 13:28:51 is it worth sacrificing growth potential to stay at our current address? May 02 13:28:55 Anyway, why can't we continue to use the avenues we have been using in order to contact Brandon to keep him in the loop of potential future changes, and give him a week or so to voice his opinion on them if he wishes before pursuing them? That way we can continue to operate under StrategyWiki and Brandon has enough time to look at and respond to any stuff sent to him, and he will always be kept in-the-loop May 02 13:29:05 Or is it better to move to another address so that we can become bigger and better? May 02 13:29:32 <~Prod> (Skizzerz): we need to make moves into a legal entity May 02 13:29:36 Adding to Skizzerz' point, is there anything we wouldn't be able to do (legally) without Brandon's participation May 02 13:29:39 <~Prod> we can't do that without ech May 02 13:29:42 ah May 02 13:30:11 DrBob: here's something to consider from our potential investor's point of view. May 02 13:30:30 And this is something that is actually under consideration: May 02 13:30:59 Imagine our investor uses his personal finances to purchase the GamerWiki.net domain from its current owner, so that we can use it to launch our second wiki. May 02 13:31:28 * Garrett has joined #SW-Meeting May 02 13:31:42 If echelon at any time decides that he is against what we are doing, and for whatever reason, asserts his control over the site, our investor is then out of the money he invested. May 02 13:32:16 That's no good May 02 13:32:31 * Melon247 has left #SW-Meeting May 02 13:32:51 Do we have any other plans which are less drastic than changing domains? May 02 13:32:52 Believe me, what I think myself and Prod, and I'm sure many others of you would like to see happen is that we have Brandon's blessing, May 02 13:33:14 he approves of our plans, and we go forward with the growth that we'd like to accomplish. May 02 13:33:45 who's to say he won't change his mind though? May 02 13:33:46 Well, May 02 13:34:08 Duke: Without diving too deeply into the details, contracts would be involved. May 02 13:34:15 oh ok, i see May 02 13:34:48 And I apologize to all of you, I don't mean to be cryptic about any of this. May 02 13:34:58 of course. May 02 13:35:33 If any of you are feeling confused and kind of unsure about the best way to proceed, welcome to my world. May 02 13:35:41 I've been dealing with this for the better part of three months. May 02 13:36:16 i'd say we set some sort of timeline up, if we don't have echelon's blessing or notice by a certain date, we proceed with moving on May 02 13:36:17 I have been unable to make any headway, and while I would like to protect the community from the politics at hand, it is still your community, and I believe that it is important for all of you to have some say in how it is run. May 02 13:36:17 I want to address a misconception that some of you have. Creating a new brand and moving to a new domain will not cause much damage at all. We can send DoubleJump a new advertisement, and search engines will automatically quickly pick up our new address. We will surpass StrategyWiki's PageRank due to page updates. Our new domain will sit right back to where it is, but with even more sublime. May 02 13:36:45 oh, thanks for the clarification Teddy :) May 02 13:36:58 but I'd still like to stick w/ strategywiki if possible May 02 13:36:59 I would be a lot happier with a domain change if I knew we could have strategywiki.org redirect to the new one May 02 13:37:03 what about our existing visitors? May 02 13:37:17 That does leave a nasty problem of what name to choose, though, if we were to change May 02 13:37:26 <~Prod> DrBob we could for a little while May 02 13:37:26 how would we notify them that we've changed domains? May 02 13:37:33 would all of the content move as well, or would it be duplicated? May 02 13:37:34 There would be a transition period with a notification on StrategyWiki. May 02 13:38:00 <~Prod> it would be essentially a database copy May 02 13:38:02 Actually, I should say something that I just mentioned on #strategywiki to make it public record: May 02 13:38:08 Echelon is not in the dark about any of this. May 02 13:38:15 At least, as far as we know and are concerned. May 02 13:38:43 I have sent him a note detailing everything about our current position, where we are, where we would like to go, what's holding us back, and possible outcomes. May 02 13:39:22 <~Prod> however, lets not have everyone spamming him May 02 13:39:23 I'll point out something else I just mentioned to garrett: May 02 13:39:43 The owner of GamerWiki.net has been interested in selling his domain to us since February. May 02 13:39:52 We have not proceeded with the purchase due to this very issue. May 02 13:40:50 And if a domain change is deemed necessary, that is one of our top choices for a destination. May 02 13:41:23 You mean .com? May 02 13:41:29 Yes, sorry, thanks Teddy May 02 13:42:14 I don't think Teddy will mind me mentioning that whether we stay at our current domain, or move to another, Teddy is considering some new designs to jazz up the site. May 02 13:42:37 sounds good May 02 13:42:55 Essentially, whether we move or stay, we're going to see some major improvements. May 02 13:43:09 It's just, if we move we can do even more. May 02 13:43:14 But to quote a rather crude saying, we have to "shit or get off the pot." May 02 13:43:29 <~Prod> or get a new pot ;) May 02 13:43:43 lol, well, I think that's what getting off implies :) May 02 13:43:46 personally, i'm ready to move on if that's what it takes May 02 13:44:33 Thanks Duke. Just so we have a good idea of the communities feelings, would anyone else like to voice their opinion on the matter? May 02 13:45:01 I feel as Duke does, under the condition that we try everything possible to stay where we are first, until all other options have been exaughsted. May 02 13:45:05 exhausted... May 02 13:45:25 Quite frankly with nostalgia aside, I think that a domain name like GamerWiki.com could appeal to more people (as well as search engines). May 02 13:45:42 I'd like to recommend a timeline... Give Ech six months, or whatever, to respond to us. Then you move on. May 02 13:46:13 Teddy: I agree May 02 13:46:47 Duke: while that would be nice, time is a luxory, and from a business perspective, we do have competitors that we want to stay on top of. May 02 13:47:29 fair enough, but waiting until we exhaust all our options might take awhile as well... You can make that deadline be next month, if that's better. May 02 13:47:30 I'd like to point something out, something which is a big concern of echelon's. May 02 13:47:50 Procyon, that's exactly what I was thinking about; you just articulated it better than I could. We will give him time, but we can't give him eternity. May 02 13:47:55 One of echelon's biggest concerns is that the information provided by SW be free, and always available to the viewing public. May 02 13:48:56 He wants to make sure that if there were to be a sale of SW's controlling entity, that SW remain excluded from that sale, and that it's control always be handed to someone who is going to stay with the basic principles and philosophies of open source and free information. May 02 13:49:26 To be honest, I think that's actually one of the points where we all happen to agree. May 02 13:49:57 I don't think anyone here would like to see SW become a site based on profit through the sale of access to information. May 02 13:50:04 I certainly don't. May 02 13:50:11 Me too May 02 13:50:23 * Skizzerz as well May 02 13:50:24 Any way that we generate revenue must be done side by side with the free presentation of information, not as an alternative to it. May 02 13:51:00 i don't think we'd be as competitive if you had to pay for the content anyway May 02 13:51:29 It's a shame that despite sharing this priority, we're still having trouble keeping echelon involved. May 02 13:51:57 Duke: You're right. This is essentialy GameFAQs business model as well, and it's working out fine for them. May 02 13:52:13 And if you think about it, May 02 13:52:25 this discussion has overshadowed something we should be celebrating, May 02 13:52:43 and something which I must sincerely thank Teddy and Prod for their assistance in making it possible; May 02 13:52:50 the first commercial skinning of our site! May 02 13:52:58 *round of applause* May 02 13:53:01 indeed! it looks awesome! May 02 13:53:10 (which will only remain on the site for a few days longer) May 02 13:53:55 Alright well, May 02 13:54:03 I think we have exhausted the topic. May 02 13:54:19 I wanted to inform everyone of our current situation and status. May 02 13:55:28 Would anyone like to raise any other issues concerning the site? May 02 13:55:46 just want to thank everyone for helping with the main page redesign (i didn't get a chance before) May 02 13:56:19 <~Prod> on that note, ech did mention that he liked the new page design :P May 02 13:56:29 Yes, I'd like to thank everyone for their involvement with that as well. May 02 13:56:36 Teddy has some ideas that he's been tossing around. May 02 13:57:45 Alright, well, I guess everyone's a bit on the quiet side today. May 02 13:57:59 If no one has any other points or issues that they'd like to raise, May 02 13:58:01 we can adjourn. May 02 13:58:06 Oh, hang on May 02 13:58:31 Sure May 02 13:58:35 I'd just like to congratulate the authors of the Phoenix Wright guide on its promotion to featured status May 02 13:58:42 * Prod claps! May 02 13:58:49 * Procyon applaudsd May 02 13:58:52 bleh :P May 02 13:58:59 I've been going through proofreading it, and I've found very few things to change! :D May 02 14:00:00 It is indeed a very good example of a polished and well done guide. May 02 14:00:30 btw, if anyone is interested, I will be attending the Destructoid.com Baltimore/DC NARP this evening. May 02 14:00:47 I'm bringing my MAME computer and everything. May 02 14:00:52 Does anyone have any ideas about how to promote featured guides even further? Not necessarily on SW.org itself. May 02 14:01:12 <~Prod> we need to post them to abxy.org May 02 14:01:22 <~Prod> the blog * May 02 14:01:37 send an e-mail to some blogs? like joystiq or kotaku? May 02 14:01:53 <~Prod> (Duke): why would they care? :P May 02 14:02:02 <~Prod> maybe once we reach a milestone May 02 14:02:04 yya.... i guess they wouldn't yet May 02 14:02:11 * Vizeroth has joined #SW-Meeting May 02 14:02:31 our 10th featured guide isn't a milestone? May 02 14:02:34 Prod: oh great, coverage of an event nobody cares about on a blog nobody cares about. May 02 14:02:36 Could Digg them, I suppose May 02 14:02:45 Though that might invite more vandalism than appreciation May 02 14:02:47 <~Prod> was that our 10th? May 02 14:02:47 Digg isn't a bad idea. May 02 14:02:56 http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Category:Guides_at_completion_stage_5 May 02 14:03:03 Digg has certainly been successful in the past. May 02 14:03:07 the nav at the top says 10 May 02 14:03:16 but I'm not sure about Pokémon yellow May 02 14:03:27 <~Prod> that will have to be fixed... May 02 14:03:27 lol May 02 14:03:41 oh... we're only on 9 May 02 14:04:00 the nav at the top counts the sub category May 02 14:04:39 I think the meeting might have ended now :-\ May 02 14:04:42 <~Prod> which shouldn't be in there May 02 14:04:46 Well, May 02 14:04:56 yeah, we can wrap it up if no one has any other concerns. May 02 14:05:10 <~Prod> we should revisit this on our next featured May 02 14:05:10 I want to thank you all again for coming and participating. May 02 14:05:13 <~Prod> 10 is a milestone for us May 02 14:05:18 will be May 02 14:05:20 We're going through some growing pains at the moment, May 02 14:05:32 and I want to help transition as through them as gracefully as possible. May 02 14:05:54 If ANY of you have ANY concerns or thoughts that you want to bring to my attention, May 02 14:06:06 publicly or privately, May 02 14:06:16 I hope you will all feel free to do so at any time. May 02 14:06:51 There is no SW without you guys, May 02 14:07:22 And I'm reminded of that every day when I look at the recent changes log. May 02 14:07:45 Alright, thanks every body. May 02 14:07:48 See you in a month.