2008-12-06T11:02:44 OK, we'll get started. 2008-12-06T11:03:16 First, as always, I want to thank all of you for coming. This is a chance for me to catch everyone up on the latest developments, and there have been a lot lately. 2008-12-06T11:03:36 *** Pinky has joined #SW-Meeting 2008-12-06T11:03:47 For that reason, it has occurred to me that it might be a better use of time if I provided a preamble that everyone could read before the meeting starts, 2008-12-06T11:04:02 Ok? 2008-12-06T11:04:06 so that you don't have to sit here and read everything I type for a bunch of minutes before any discussion takes place. 2008-12-06T11:04:12 Arrow? 2008-12-06T11:04:18 Ya? 2008-12-06T11:04:25 lol, ok what? 2008-12-06T11:04:34 I'm wondering about your preamble. =P 2008-12-06T11:04:40 *** ness has joined #SW-Meeting 2008-12-06T11:04:44 Hey Dan, welcome. 2008-12-06T11:04:47 hey ness :) 2008-12-06T11:04:54 Hey there. 2008-12-06T11:05:14 Sorry to interrupt midway. Feel free to continue. 2008-12-06T11:05:25 we didn't really start yet :) 2008-12-06T11:05:31 Arrow, what I'm saying is we always start with this long message typed out by me, 2008-12-06T11:05:35 Ah, I see. 2008-12-06T11:05:37 and if I mailed it around to everyone first, 2008-12-06T11:05:47 we could spend more time with discussion from the start. 2008-12-06T11:05:57 hmm... how will that work w/ the logs then? 2008-12-06T11:06:02 So that's what I will try to do from the next meeting going forward. 2008-12-06T11:06:22 *** Prod has joined #SW-Meeting 2008-12-06T11:06:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +qo Prod Prod 2008-12-06T11:06:23 Skiz: I can post the preamble to both the Google Group, and to the forum, 2008-12-06T11:06:25 Prod!!! 2008-12-06T11:06:28 Procyon: sounds good 2008-12-06T11:06:57 Yeah, it will flow better. 2008-12-06T11:07:19 So since I have _not_ sent a preamble out for this meeting, I'll just start with the latest developments. 2008-12-06T11:07:51 First, on the small side, we have DoubleJump Books. 2008-12-06T11:08:04 All of you have probably seen the new announcement for their Persona 4 guide on the front page. 2008-12-06T11:08:23 Tim Lindquist sent me two free copies of the guide. I want you to know what he went through to keep up his end of the partnership. 2008-12-06T11:08:41 They ran out of space in this guide. They print no advertising, and they had no empty back page. 2008-12-06T11:08:52 The editors were saying they'd have to leave the SW ad out. 2008-12-06T11:09:10 Tim said no, and had them print the ad in the back inside cover of the guide. It cost them an extra $250 to do that. 2008-12-06T11:09:25 wow 2008-12-06T11:09:37 Oh, wow. 2008-12-06T11:09:38 So, I really appreciated his dedication. 2008-12-06T11:09:53 Yeah, definitely noble of him. 2008-12-06T11:10:00 And it is there, printed right on the inside of the back cover. Looks nice because it's extra glossy. 2008-12-06T11:10:19 Thanks Tim! 2008-12-06T11:10:26 As for that second copy I have, I hope to get it into th e hands of Nick Chester, the editor-in-chief of Destructoid.com 2008-12-06T11:10:40 I'm supposed to meet with him socially some time next week, which is awesome. 2008-12-06T11:10:44 So that's DoubleJump. 2008-12-06T11:11:00 Ooh, fun. 2008-12-06T11:11:13 Next up is GamerDNA. I have no doubt that you have all noticed the slightly jarring, but eye popping Child's Play charity promotion. 2008-12-06T11:11:46 It does serve as a bit of a contest within the GamerDNA alliance, and I knew there was no chance that we'd win, but I wanted to participate anyway due to 2008-12-06T11:12:01 a) the fact that it was for a charity, and a video game related charity at that, so it doesn't matter who wins, 2008-12-06T11:12:17 and b) to show GamerDNA that we wanted to be more than just clients, we want to be participants. 2008-12-06T11:12:20 Speaking of which, 2008-12-06T11:12:40 I finally got to have an awesome long phone conference with the guys in charge of GamerDNA Thursday night. 2008-12-06T11:12:59 I have volunteered to be a reference for their B round of due diligence with their venture capitalist. 2008-12-06T11:13:21 Which means, I will be getting phone calls and asked about what I think of them and stuff, and what our plans are. 2008-12-06T11:13:48 So they took the opportunity to explain more of what they are doing, and believe me, the whole ad placement thing is just the tip of the ice burg. 2008-12-06T11:14:14 They essentially plan to flip the current model of game marketting statistics on its ear, 2008-12-06T11:14:36 and provide publishers with factual information concerning the purchasing habits of gamers everywhere. 2008-12-06T11:15:07 While that may sound kind of "evil corporate genius" to some of you, in the long term, it should actually result in better games being published. 2008-12-06T11:15:23 I say should, because their's no gaurentee that publishers will actually listen to them, 2008-12-06T11:15:41 but in the long run, it should help publishers identify which games to publish that gamers will actually want to play. 2008-12-06T11:15:53 The good news is this; 2008-12-06T11:16:10 They see SW as a crucial element in part of their plan, and to a lesser extent, abxy. 2008-12-06T11:16:19 Let me focus on abxy for a minute. 2008-12-06T11:16:37 During my phone call with them, they spoke of some of their plans, and I spoke of some of our plans. 2008-12-06T11:16:57 Garrett has been utterly amazing at identifying some key sites of competition that I was completely unaware of. 2008-12-06T11:17:10 One that I was aware of, and I have mentioned this to ness in particular, is raptr.com 2008-12-06T11:17:53 It was not so ironic, that when I pointed out to GamerDNA that we saw raptr.com as a potential competitor to us, they agreed and sited them as one of their competitors as well. 2008-12-06T11:18:42 For those who don't understand what I'm talking about, one function of abxy that hasn't quite gotten off the ground yet, but was always there in the planning stages, is a server/client model instant messenger called abxy Connect, which would be used to connect gamers in much the same fashion that DSMeet did. 2008-12-06T11:19:17 raptr.com got off the ground long before us, but between ness's vision for the product, and GamerDNA's interest and support in wanting a competing project, 2008-12-06T11:19:27 we may be nearing the time when this will finally have a chance to grow. 2008-12-06T11:19:53 Right now, this is just a lot of talking, but what we're finally starting to see is bits of potential growth in a lot of key areas. 2008-12-06T11:20:16 Now, focusing more on us, and less on GamerDNA, 2008-12-06T11:20:31 I have to be very careful about how much information I give out, 2008-12-06T11:20:34 but suficed to say, 2008-12-06T11:20:52 since I opened a bank account specifically to save the money that we get from them, 2008-12-06T11:20:59 (back in the end of September) 2008-12-06T11:21:11 we have well over $2000 saved up. 2008-12-06T11:21:17 That's substantial guys. 2008-12-06T11:21:42 That money represents only about 1.5 months of cooperation with them, as I haven't even gotten November's check. 2008-12-06T11:22:11 We are finally at a point where we need to start thinking, as an organization, how we want to utilize that money. 2008-12-06T11:22:32 And that is the primary focus of this month's meeting, although there are a couple of other points to touch upon before we conclude. 2008-12-06T11:22:43 I don't think we will finish today with an absolute answer, 2008-12-06T11:22:55 but I want everyone to start thinking about it, and generate some ideas. 2008-12-06T11:23:10 The idea that I like best so far, and have championed for a while was Garrett's idea to offer bounties. 2008-12-06T11:23:43 It would work in a similar fashion to GameFAQs' bounties, but it would be awarded to a guide contributor MVP, which is voted for by the community. 2008-12-06T11:23:52 Sysops would obviously be precluded from the competition ;) 2008-12-06T11:23:59 :( 2008-12-06T11:23:59 *** DrBob has joined #SW-Meeting 2008-12-06T11:24:07 Hey! Welcome DrBob! 2008-12-06T11:24:16 Hi 2008-12-06T11:24:22 Sorry I'm late 2008-12-06T11:24:25 Welcome DrBob. 2008-12-06T11:24:35 Gerrett: Yeah, I know, it sucks, but the goal is to give new users more incentive to participate. 2008-12-06T11:24:44 That's one thing I can't stand about wikicheats; 2008-12-06T11:24:48 they have this XP system, 2008-12-06T11:25:04 and the only people it benefits are the paid employees who sit there all day and contribute content to the site. 2008-12-06T11:25:09 No standard user can ever compete with them. 2008-12-06T11:25:27 but we're not paid... yet :P 2008-12-06T11:25:41 but yes, that's a flawed way to go about it. 2008-12-06T11:25:58 No, I know, but again, I want their to be a perception that the contest is for regular users... that you don't have to be a "part of the club" to win. 2008-12-06T11:26:07 there... 2008-12-06T11:26:10 definitely. 2008-12-06T11:26:28 So before we dove tail into a discussion about how to utilize the $2k+ that we have so far, 2008-12-06T11:26:34 I want to mention one more point. 2008-12-06T11:26:37 As we speak, 2008-12-06T11:26:41 I better get Hawkie in on this. =P 2008-12-06T11:27:06 there sits an application in the Maryland Department of Taxation and Assessment building, 2008-12-06T11:27:12 for the creation of Abxy LLC. 2008-12-06T11:27:19 :) 2008-12-06T11:27:23 Prod has been instrumental in helping me with this. 2008-12-06T11:27:38 We will soon be an official company. 2008-12-06T11:27:53 And Garrett's previous point is correct on two levels. 2008-12-06T11:28:28 We're not paid, and we're not paid YET. 2008-12-06T11:28:51 The hope is that as we continue to grow, that will change. 2008-12-06T11:28:56 In the mean time, 2008-12-06T11:29:12 I have come to learn that while LLCs can't sell stock as public shares, 2008-12-06T11:29:25 there is nothing stoping an LLC from distributing shares to its partners. 2008-12-06T11:29:39 Those shares will only have intrinsic value while the company remains private, and non-public, 2008-12-06T11:30:07 but if the company were to ever be purchased, or we went public with an IPO, 2008-12-06T11:30:11 they would suddenly have value. 2008-12-06T11:30:21 Right now, I have no plans to sell Abxy LLC for any amount of money, 2008-12-06T11:30:51 but hypothetically, if you has 1% of the shares, and someone bought Abxy LLC for $1 million, your 1% share would be worth $10,000 2008-12-06T11:30:57 Which isn't too shabby. 2008-12-06T11:31:09 With that said, 2008-12-06T11:31:32 everyone who is here attending this meeting (and some people who are missing) are all potential recipiants of stock. 2008-12-06T11:31:47 There are a ton of details to be worked out, but I just wanted to let you all know. 2008-12-06T11:32:10 You are certainly welcome to opt out of stock ownership, but what it means is you have a stake in the success of the sites. 2008-12-06T11:32:26 All of the topics I've mentioned so far, 2008-12-06T11:32:32 The DoubleJump partnership, 2008-12-06T11:32:39 the GamerDNA phone conference, 2008-12-06T11:32:45 The charity participation 2008-12-06T11:32:50 The money we have in the bank so far, 2008-12-06T11:32:56 the formation of Abxy LLC 2008-12-06T11:33:07 and the opportunity for owning shares in it, 2008-12-06T11:33:30 This is the precipace of a moment when we go from being a group of users with a fun project, 2008-12-06T11:33:45 to actually becoming a full fledged company with a mission. 2008-12-06T11:34:11 And our mission will never be to "make a profit." If we have a good mission that we're excited about, then the profit will come no matter what. 2008-12-06T11:34:18 "Do no evil" 2008-12-06T11:34:21 Our mission is what we've been doing all along. 2008-12-06T11:34:49 Create a cool and diverse gaming community who is interested in sharing knowledge of video games, and creating a one-stop resource for such information. 2008-12-06T11:35:15 And I personally think we're the best at it on the entire internet. 2008-12-06T11:35:20 I hope you all agree. 2008-12-06T11:35:25 "open" 2008-12-06T11:35:32 So, I'm finally stepping down off my soap box. 2008-12-06T11:35:39 YAY! 2008-12-06T11:35:40 Er 2008-12-06T11:35:42 I mean 2008-12-06T11:35:43 That's goo 2008-12-06T11:35:45 d 2008-12-06T11:35:47 >.> 2008-12-06T11:35:48 If you have ideas on how to utilize the money, please share them now. 2008-12-06T11:35:48 =P 2008-12-06T11:36:02 lol, Arrow, I'll take that as an indication of your excitement ^_^ 2008-12-06T11:36:31 Staff pizza party. 2008-12-06T11:36:40 Now, if you _don't_ have any ideas about the money, I invite you to go off and think about it for a while after the meeting. 2008-12-06T11:36:51 Try to identify: a) what we need and b) what we want. 2008-12-06T11:36:52 Buying video capture hardware for contributors who will make good use of it 2008-12-06T11:37:01 *** Notmyhandle has joined #SW-Meeting 2008-12-06T11:37:01 That's a fantastic idea. 2008-12-06T11:37:07 Hey NMH! 2008-12-06T11:37:08 Agreed. 2008-12-06T11:37:14 * Procyon opens a file to jot down ideas. 2008-12-06T11:37:22 That'd be a good idea since it'd make the console section grow a little bigger. 2008-12-06T11:37:31 Make 'em a little more...shiny. 2008-12-06T11:37:31 I'm also in favor of using the money for bounties. 2008-12-06T11:37:36 The LLC can own the device, but can loan it out to partners in the company. 2008-12-06T11:37:59 Yes, I think bounties are fantastic for encouraging new editors, 2008-12-06T11:38:08 AND they are a great way to get us press on the gaming blogs. 2008-12-06T11:38:21 I've been talking with Nick Chester of Destructoid about that for a while. 2008-12-06T11:38:42 the system for it will need to be workable 2008-12-06T11:38:46 Definitely. Not only will it get us press in the gaming industry, but also in the wiki "industry" -- Wikipedia has always thought about paying contributors. 2008-12-06T11:38:55 for instance, what if two or more people significantly contribute to a popular game? 2008-12-06T11:39:24 Garrett: The plan that I have for it (if everyone doesn't mind talking about it for a little bit) 2008-12-06T11:39:35 would be to open a particular title to a bounty for one month. 2008-12-06T11:39:39 At the end of that month, 2008-12-06T11:39:43 there would be a two week voting period. 2008-12-06T11:39:55 Whether we let people vote for just one, or an ordered top three, 2008-12-06T11:40:11 after two weeks, we tally the votes, and offer prizes to the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd top contibutors. 2008-12-06T11:40:18 sounds good 2008-12-06T11:40:27 we can also ask what games people are willing to go to bounties on 2008-12-06T11:40:40 and pick th emost relevant guide 2008-12-06T11:40:56 otherwise people may not add anything to the guide 2008-12-06T11:41:04 I say bounties only are given if the collab of the month gets finished 2008-12-06T11:41:05 That could work as well. One thing I want to do is go after our competition a little bit... 2008-12-06T11:41:21 Notmyhandle: the bounty system would probably replace the collaboration system 2008-12-06T11:41:25 NMH: No, you can't put the offer out there and recind it if the guide isn't complete. 2008-12-06T11:41:50 It would go to the guide MVPs for that month, no matter how complete the guide is. 2008-12-06T11:42:10 How do we determine the MVP? 2008-12-06T11:42:13 I'm in favor of not tying it to a specific guide, so people can work on whatever they feel like. 2008-12-06T11:42:16 A month is a good amount of time for a guide to be complete, and I'm sure people won't stop working on it after investing that much time in it even after the voting is complete. 2008-12-06T11:42:18 Most characters added? 2008-12-06T11:42:30 NMH: Community vote during a two week period. 2008-12-06T11:42:40 I think the terms of the bounty should be set on a per-bounty basis 2008-12-06T11:42:53 depending on the size of the guide 2008-12-06T11:42:57 Skiz: That's certainly doable. 2008-12-06T11:43:04 like have one bounty be a Map-a-thon, one be a mass-addition of character information, etc. 2008-12-06T11:43:06 if it's a big guide and multiple contributors we split it between them 2008-12-06T11:43:15 that way it's easier to compare people's work as well 2008-12-06T11:43:31 Naj: One thing that this is trying to help us do is be more competitive with wikicheats. We want to encourage work on specific guides. 2008-12-06T11:43:45 Hm. 2008-12-06T11:43:47 Naj: Editors will work on any guide they like regardless of the bounties, that will never change. 2008-12-06T11:44:28 Any other thoughs on bounties or other uses for the money? 2008-12-06T11:44:31 would there be any bounties for the cleanup project? 2008-12-06T11:44:32 thoughts 2008-12-06T11:44:40 If bounties are for guides you don't like,or don't know anything about, you probably wouldn't be very interested in the system. 2008-12-06T11:44:55 Rocky: There's nothing to say that there couldn't be, although we want to encourage more content at the moment. 2008-12-06T11:44:55 I wouldn't be happy with bounties for the cleanup project 2008-12-06T11:44:58 there should probably be more than one bounty-eligible game per month 2008-12-06T11:45:10 * Prod agree with Garrett 2008-12-06T11:45:18 So how much are we thinking of? 2008-12-06T11:45:21 cleanup project should only be undertaken by those who actually WANT to help clean up the site and are familiar with the methods of doing it 2008-12-06T11:45:22 $$ wise 2008-12-06T11:45:24 or we just have a list of bounty valid games 2008-12-06T11:45:27 Naj: Another way to think of it is to attract new editors. 2008-12-06T11:45:29 We don't want new contributors diving straight in and mucking up cleanup for the want of money 2008-12-06T11:45:35 and once a significant amount of content is added we award the bounty 2008-12-06T11:45:37 in other words, we don't want to give new people money so they can mess up the site more 2008-12-06T11:45:42 Skizzerz: agreed 2008-12-06T11:45:59 Prod: well, the current idea is that it would replace the CotM box for visibility purposes, but that's another option 2008-12-06T11:46:04 yea 2008-12-06T11:46:19 We still have space on the com portal 2008-12-06T11:46:32 Obviously, if new users make a mess of things, they aren't likely to get the MVP award. 2008-12-06T11:46:59 Now, one thing I said early on is that sysops will never be elligable for the money. However, how do you feel about sysops participating in the vote? 2008-12-06T11:47:02 I'm for it. 2008-12-06T11:47:07 sure 2008-12-06T11:47:17 Notmyhandle: GameFAQs offers $20 to $60, depending on how wanted the guide is 2008-12-06T11:47:17 since sysops generally know what good guides are 2008-12-06T11:47:25 SysOps are the only valid voters anyway. 2008-12-06T11:47:25 true 2008-12-06T11:47:33 Eliminates sockpuppets. 2008-12-06T11:47:37 Not necessarily 2008-12-06T11:47:38 Since we can't win. 2008-12-06T11:47:50 Oh... I see what you mean... hadn't thought about sockpuppets. 2008-12-06T11:48:03 We're impartial (supposedly). 2008-12-06T11:48:08 What if we set a contribution minimum on voters... like, you have to have at least 100 contributions to vote. 2008-12-06T11:48:14 socks are especially likely to be a problem if we enable OpenID access 2008-12-06T11:48:24 er, or do that, yes. 2008-12-06T11:48:28 A new autoconfirm level? 2008-12-06T11:48:28 Garrett: That's interesting, how so? 2008-12-06T11:48:40 well, it's like a one-click account creation feature 2008-12-06T11:48:46 and it's tied to a URL rather than an email address 2008-12-06T11:48:51 (or at least that's my understanding) 2008-12-06T11:49:13 Garrett: Yes, but surely the URL has to have been registered for OpenID in the first place? 2008-12-06T11:49:17 Well, it's interesting that you brought that up, because that's a subject we have to discuss. 2008-12-06T11:49:35 It might be a one-click process at our end, but I'm pretty sure it's more complex than that to set up the OpenID URL 2008-12-06T11:49:41 DrBob: yes, but you can register multiple with OpenID quite easily. 2008-12-06T11:49:46 :-\ 2008-12-06T11:49:51 having said that, the benefits should outweigh the negatives. 2008-12-06T11:49:51 That seems stupid 2008-12-06T11:50:15 *** Duke has joined #SW-Meeting 2008-12-06T11:50:17 OK, then let's shelve the money topic for a while and move on to OpenID 2008-12-06T11:50:51 Having said that, I invite all of you to think more about how to utilize our funding, and use the Google Group to discuss if if you get any new ideas. 2008-12-06T11:51:16 DrBob: here's an OpenID sign up form : https://www.myopenid.com/signup 2008-12-06T11:51:17 Prod, I'm particularly interested in your thoughts and opinions of the OpenID. 2008-12-06T11:51:22 or just the forums 2008-12-06T11:51:27 (Garrett): openid is decentralized 2008-12-06T11:51:32 I don't think you have to confirm the address to use the account, but I may be wrong 2008-12-06T11:51:40 Prod: yes. Thats just an example to answer DrBob's query 2008-12-06T11:51:44 we configure it locally on our server 2008-12-06T11:51:47 ah, ok 2008-12-06T11:51:54 Well, I think GamerDNA configures it. 2008-12-06T11:52:00 by supporting OpenID we would also become an OpenID provider (er, at least that's how I understand it) 2008-12-06T11:52:05 we configure ours to work with gdna's 2008-12-06T11:52:09 ok 2008-12-06T11:52:25 Maybe I should provide some background so that everyone understands... 2008-12-06T11:52:37 Procyon: the group isn't open to posts, is it? 2008-12-06T11:52:43 last time I tried it didn't work >_> 2008-12-06T11:52:45 This subject is being rasied because of one of the clauses in our contract with GamerDNA 2008-12-06T11:53:02 Garrett: I thought it was... was I able to simply because I am one of the admins? 2008-12-06T11:53:08 probably >_> 2008-12-06T11:53:19 Garrett: I'll look into it and fix that if I can, or Prod will if I can't. 2008-12-06T11:53:20 it should be open to anyone with a google id 2008-12-06T11:53:21 I've talked with gamerdna regarding OpenID a bit 2008-12-06T11:53:32 Oh, awesome Skiz, what did you learn? 2008-12-06T11:53:54 it's more about the implementation, but by default we'll be using GamerDNA's OpenID server 2008-12-06T11:54:23 Procyon: ah, I was right. "This group is announcement-only. You cannot post messages because you are not a manager." 2008-12-06T11:55:14 It creates a pseudo-account on the wiki upon the first login, and then uses that account for every login past that, so it can be blocked, etc. as normal 2008-12-06T11:55:20 Garrett: OK. Prod, we could either open the group up, or make a locked sysop only forum. 2008-12-06T11:55:40 Skizzerz: so will the extension need much modification to work with GamerDNA's server? 2008-12-06T11:55:44 no 2008-12-06T11:55:48 it'll need very little 2008-12-06T11:55:59 However, 2008-12-06T11:56:12 there is one thing that the gdna guys have been drilling in to me... 2008-12-06T11:56:28 it doesn't work with phpBB, and they do not want to support it because of how vulnerable it is. 2008-12-06T11:57:15 vBulletin rocks 2008-12-06T11:57:21 :D 2008-12-06T11:57:22 gdna has offerred to _give_ us one of their vBulliten licenses if we would like it. 2008-12-06T11:57:32 :| 2008-12-06T11:57:35 plus there are conversions that can import a phpBB database into a vBulletin one 2008-12-06T11:57:36 As in give us for free, not charge us. 2008-12-06T11:57:48 I think DrBob and Prod have some converns about vB 2008-12-06T11:57:58 however, we're trying to build an "open" network 2008-12-06T11:58:00 I don't, other than that it's not open source 2008-12-06T11:58:09 (DrBob): that's the main concern 2008-12-06T11:58:12 I was just surprised they gave us a licence. They're expensive things 2008-12-06T11:58:13 we're trying to stay "open" 2008-12-06T11:58:34 DrBob: actually, a vB license is a third of the price of a IPB license 2008-12-06T11:58:48 Then IPB licences are even more expensive things :) 2008-12-06T11:58:52 I don't feel strongly about the "open" aspect, however, I highly support Prod and DrBob's opinions, so I want to come to a conclusion that they are happy with. 2008-12-06T11:59:32 Are there any advantages to using vB, other than that we get the licence for free and it's more secure? 2008-12-06T11:59:42 One thing is clear, gdna does not want us sticking with phpBB. They can't force us, but they are likely to voice their opinions very strenously. 2008-12-06T11:59:45 strenuously 2008-12-06T12:00:00 are there any other open source options? 2008-12-06T12:00:07 ocPortal/OCF 2008-12-06T12:00:16 that gdna would be happy with? 2008-12-06T12:00:30 I could ask them about that, 2008-12-06T12:00:55 That would allow us to build a site for the rest of abxy too, but I don't know if that's planned again or not 2008-12-06T12:01:10 if we can find an open source option that is compatible with OpenID there shouldn't be a problem right? 2008-12-06T12:01:15 If we're not planning to use anything other than forums, ocPortal may be a bit bulky 2008-12-06T12:01:55 what else doees it have? 2008-12-06T12:02:06 CMS system 2008-12-06T12:02:16 yea, that's probably not needed for us :P 2008-12-06T12:02:17 *CMS 2008-12-06T12:02:19 anything else? 2008-12-06T12:02:25 ... 2008-12-06T12:02:28 Kitchen sink? 2008-12-06T12:02:30 Prod: CMS is everything. 2008-12-06T12:02:48 yes, but MW is also a CMS 2008-12-06T12:02:58 in a loose sense of the term 2008-12-06T12:03:22 it's a bit more stringent, but it's a versioned repository of documents 2008-12-06T12:04:03 I don't think a full CMS is needed at the moment 2008-12-06T12:04:26 when and if abxy takes off with all sorts of fancy features it won't be directly shoehorned onto the current site system anyway 2008-12-06T12:05:14 Is there any objection to giving vBulletin a shot for a while? 2008-12-06T12:05:24 None here. 2008-12-06T12:05:25 conversion 2008-12-06T12:05:31 skins 2008-12-06T12:05:37 As long as we'd have a theme going for it, I think there'd be no problem. 2008-12-06T12:05:56 well, it's not like we have a theme now anyway 2008-12-06T12:06:09 BlueCloud? 2008-12-06T12:06:11 conversion should be simple 2008-12-06T12:06:18 ness: I mean on the forum. 2008-12-06T12:06:28 I like the current look of abxy.org 2008-12-06T12:06:42 Procyon: abxy is currently using an out-of-box phpBB skin. 2008-12-06T12:06:47 This sort of dovetails into the last topic that I personally want to raise before we open the floor. 2008-12-06T12:06:55 Garrett: I guess I meant our header then. 2008-12-06T12:07:10 I have spoken with Teddy (who I'm sorry is not here right now), 2008-12-06T12:07:33 and I have gotten a partial confirmation from him that he would be agreeable to creating an alternate skin for a second wiki over winter break. 2008-12-06T12:07:48 I think you all are familiar with the plans that I've had to open a second wiki for quite some time. 2008-12-06T12:07:53 I am extremely eager to do it, 2008-12-06T12:08:09 and I think that this winter break would be the perfect time to act on this plan. 2008-12-06T12:08:16 Definitely 2008-12-06T12:08:24 i can't wait! 2008-12-06T12:08:29 That's a shame, because I'm not back until after January 2008-12-06T12:08:30 Garrett: Teddy might be able to create a matching skin for phpbb. 2008-12-06T12:08:39 or vb 2008-12-06T12:08:41 ness: well, definitely. 2008-12-06T12:08:42 er 2008-12-06T12:08:44 vb, whoops. 2008-12-06T12:08:46 Just FYI, so that people understand the purpose of this second wiki is as follows: 2008-12-06T12:09:09 the second wiki will also be a good way to try out some new things. Media sharing, account sharing, Semantic MediaWiki... 2008-12-06T12:09:11 Right now, we have a stringent guideline on what articles can be created on SW, and it's one that I think we all like and support. 2008-12-06T12:09:35 You can make an article for Super Mario Bros., Super Mario World, etc., but you can't make an article for Mario. 2008-12-06T12:09:40 That is intentional and by design. 2008-12-06T12:10:00 However, I would like to create a second wiki so that people CAN create articles such as Mario, Link, Triforce, Mega Man, etc. 2008-12-06T12:10:12 And as Garrett mentioned, 2008-12-06T12:10:25 there would be a lot of opportunities to experiment and do some cool stuff. 2008-12-06T12:10:36 it sounds like it would be a video games wikipedia 2008-12-06T12:10:37 I think, in addition to providing another edit space for our users, 2008-12-06T12:10:42 some of which may make its way back to SW 2008-12-06T12:10:55 (yes, in essense that is pretty much what it is, with less exclusion) 2008-12-06T12:11:05 well, technically more exclusion 2008-12-06T12:11:10 we're excluding everything non-vg 2008-12-06T12:11:27 Right but we're not putting limits on what vg material is allowed. 2008-12-06T12:11:36 righ 2008-12-06T12:11:47 It will enable us to compete more with GameFAQs and wikicheats, who don't really provide that information, 2008-12-06T12:12:09 and it will enable us to compete with Wikia a bit more as we will have two entry points of information compared to their hundreds. 2008-12-06T12:12:33 There are two things that I would really like to nail down if we can. 2008-12-06T12:12:33 well, Wikia does have a "gaming hub"... but it's full of cruft 2008-12-06T12:12:55 (Skizzerz): this will essentially be a "cruft" site won't it? 2008-12-06T12:12:55 Skiz: That's what I mean. I know that we can be far better organized than them. 2008-12-06T12:12:57 the hub is set up like three sites in one >_> 2008-12-06T12:13:12 Garrett: it IS three sites in one... 2008-12-06T12:13:16 true dat 2008-12-06T12:13:19 Garrett pointed out GiantBomb.com to me, and I think we would both like to compete with them as well. 2008-12-06T12:13:48 on what level? 2008-12-06T12:13:53 Now, the two things that I would like to try to establish before the end of this meeting is, 2008-12-06T12:13:59 they provide info on characters 2008-12-06T12:14:02 a) What cool name should we choose and 2008-12-06T12:14:03 ah 2008-12-06T12:14:07 as well as a very basic guide feature 2008-12-06T12:14:14 b) Can we draft a timeline to make this happen? 2008-12-06T12:14:35 well, we could have a temporary name while in "beta" 2008-12-06T12:14:40 and then announce a cool one once it's all sorted 2008-12-06T12:14:47 I think that with b especially, this is an opportunity to see how well we can execute a plan as an organization. 2008-12-06T12:15:08 however, the dependenices will be on the "server" team to begin with 2008-12-06T12:15:16 We technically already did that once when we moved to gdna's servers, 2008-12-06T12:15:29 i'm in... the important thing is going to be hashing out the scope of the new wiki 2008-12-06T12:15:34 however, this time we'll be doing a vanilla install and buy new hostnames 2008-12-06T12:15:35 and with that, policies 2008-12-06T12:15:44 which if I haven't publically thanked everyone responsible, like Prod, Skiz, and DrBob (dunno if anyone else was involved,) I'd like to thank them now for the excellent job. 2008-12-06T12:15:57 and ness/Matt 2008-12-06T12:16:06 Prod: Do we have to buy a new hostname if we subdomain off of SW? 2008-12-06T12:16:11 no 2008-12-06T12:16:13 Yes! Sorry ness, thank you too very much. 2008-12-06T12:16:37 Speaking of Matt, at some point, we will ensure that ownership of our existing domains transfers to Abxy LLC. 2008-12-06T12:16:51 No problem. :) 2008-12-06T12:16:58 OK, so putting the name issue aside for the moment, 2008-12-06T12:17:18 Prod, do you think you could draft a timeline during which the launching of the second wiki could take place over the holiday break? 2008-12-06T12:17:49 should this wiki share the user db with strategywiki? 2008-12-06T12:18:01 Ideally, that would be wonderful, 2008-12-06T12:18:03 I would think so 2008-12-06T12:18:05 ok 2008-12-06T12:18:12 definitely. 2008-12-06T12:18:21 Skiz: How difficult do you think that would be? 2008-12-06T12:18:22 ideally, it will also share media, like how Wikimedia Commons works 2008-12-06T12:18:26 Procyon: dead simple 2008-12-06T12:18:31 Awesome. 2008-12-06T12:18:36 all this functionality is already included in MediaWiki 2008-12-06T12:18:44 ^ yeah 2008-12-06T12:18:55 and once it's been set up once, that opens up other possibilities 2008-12-06T12:18:59 Alright, someone break it down for me like I'm a 5th grader. 2008-12-06T12:19:00 e.g. a Japanese StrategyWiki 2008-12-06T12:19:08 What all needs to be done to launch the second wiki? 2008-12-06T12:19:46 (Garrett: Dunno if you remember, but I went on to 2 or 3 Japanese speaking forums and tried to drum up interest for that, but I got no response :( Doesn't mean I wouldn't like to try again though.) 2008-12-06T12:19:48 Procyon: setting up the subdomain, enabling account sharing, enabling Commons-like media sharing (optional, but ideal), installing Semantic MediaWiki (possibly), and, er,... that's probably about it. 2008-12-06T12:19:53 well, do you want it to be easy-to-install or easy-to-maintain? 2008-12-06T12:20:21 Skiz: Understanding the trade-off your present there, I'd still pick easy-to-maintain. 2008-12-06T12:20:24 because we can set it up so that it uses the exact same directory as the current strategywiki (so updating one will update both) 2008-12-06T12:20:47 Ooh, that's interesting./ 2008-12-06T12:20:55 do you still see the upload on both sites? 2008-12-06T12:21:00 (And breaking one will break both) 2008-12-06T12:21:06 Procyon: the MapleStory guide is the #1 attraction, and not all of those people are native English-speakers. If Alexa etc. are to be believed, many come from Singapore/Hong Kong/etc. 2008-12-06T12:21:08 But when you say "we" do you really mean up, or do you mean Ian and the gdna team? 2008-12-06T12:21:13 Prod: if we share the images, then yes 2008-12-06T12:21:26 up = us 2008-12-06T12:21:45 for future-proofing, having MediaWiki shared would be ideal 2008-12-06T12:21:54 look at all the trouble Wikia had with their implementation 2008-12-06T12:22:04 Garrett: What kind of trouble? 2008-12-06T12:22:09 at one point they had like four different skins active on different sites 2008-12-06T12:22:11 it might be better to transition to a commons for images 2008-12-06T12:22:17 though 2008-12-06T12:22:22 if uploads show up everywhere 2008-12-06T12:22:23 because some low-proitoty sites never got updated by the time the next skin came around 2008-12-06T12:22:28 it should be fine as purely shared 2008-12-06T12:22:35 to be fair, admin skin overrides made it worse >_> 2008-12-06T12:22:47 admin skin was the worst idea ever >_> 2008-12-06T12:23:12 unfortunately, the media store can't be called "media" because that's a reserved pseudo-namespace 2008-12-06T12:23:35 Garrett: With your previous list of steps, how many "man hours" of work do you think is involved? 2008-12-06T12:23:56 I have no idea, sorry. 2008-12-06T12:24:04 with testing, about 3 2008-12-06T12:24:04 :P 2008-12-06T12:24:10 OK, could it be done in two weeks? 2008-12-06T12:24:14 Or would that be pushing it? 2008-12-06T12:24:15 we also need to find out from gdna if they have time to set up the new site for us 2008-12-06T12:24:30 Would it be on the same shared solution? or a different one? 2008-12-06T12:24:35 same shared 2008-12-06T12:25:06 anyway, I have to go now. I'll be back later today. 2008-12-06T12:25:07 bye all. 2008-12-06T12:25:12 cya Garrett 2008-12-06T12:25:23 Bye Garrett! 2008-12-06T12:25:26 Thanks so much! 2008-12-06T12:25:39 i'm out too... stupid exam 2008-12-06T12:25:46 OK Duke, good luck man! 2008-12-06T12:25:46 bye 2008-12-06T12:25:51 thanks, later 2008-12-06T12:25:52 Thanks for attending before your test >_< 2008-12-06T12:26:07 *** Duke has quit IRC 2008-12-06T12:26:24 OK, well, we can try to coordinate this plan offline. 2008-12-06T12:26:33 that could be best 2008-12-06T12:26:34 Before I open the floor any topics that you'd like to discuss, 2008-12-06T12:27:01 Prod, we should make a decision now; either make the Google Group open for discussion, or create a sys-ops only group on the forums. 2008-12-06T12:27:03 I also need to go. Class begins in 20 minutes. Thanks guys! 2008-12-06T12:27:04 Bye. 2008-12-06T12:27:06 bye 2008-12-06T12:27:13 Bye ness! 2008-12-06T12:27:13 cya ness 2008-12-06T12:27:17 we always have the forums 2008-12-06T12:27:21 *** ness has quit IRC 2008-12-06T12:27:36 I think the google group should mostly be used as a mailing list 2008-12-06T12:27:55 and for now a host for any random files we need 2008-12-06T12:28:03 like meeting logs 2008-12-06T12:28:28 OK, so then we will create a sys-ops only forums that should only be visible to all of us. 2008-12-06T12:28:29 *** DrBob has quit IRC 2008-12-06T12:28:33 Whoops. 2008-12-06T12:28:39 We're losing people left and right. 2008-12-06T12:28:49 Procyon: by sysops-only forum, does that mean "can only be viewed by sysops" or "can only be posted in by sysops"? 2008-12-06T12:29:36 OK, maybe it doesn't need to be sysop only... 2008-12-06T12:29:44 well, which one? 2008-12-06T12:29:57 I just didn't think that we'd want to conduct a conversation about starting the new wiki in "Community Issues" 2008-12-06T12:30:08 I was thinking viewable only 2008-12-06T12:30:09 i think most of it should be over MSN 2008-12-06T12:30:19 As in chat? 2008-12-06T12:30:20 * Skizzerz thinks not 2008-12-06T12:30:22 /gtalk 2008-12-06T12:30:25 for planning 2008-12-06T12:30:29 once it's up and running 2008-12-06T12:30:32 No, it needs to be stored somewhere. 2008-12-06T12:30:36 we can open up a new set of forums for someone 2008-12-06T12:30:40 setting up a private forum is easy 2008-12-06T12:30:40 To be referred back to. 2008-12-06T12:30:41 for everyone * 2008-12-06T12:31:00 there's not too much to plan out 2008-12-06T12:31:06 doesn't need many people for the initial set up 2008-12-06T12:31:20 OK, well, then I'll leave it up to how you see best Prod. 2008-12-06T12:31:21 after that 2008-12-06T12:31:30 we can slowly add more as we need it 2008-12-06T12:31:44 things like semantic mw and other extensions can be added later 2008-12-06T12:32:06 * Procyon really wishes that the GamerWiki domain name was available :( 2008-12-06T12:32:35 right now I think we only need Teddy, Skizzerz and Matt for the iniital set up 2008-12-06T12:32:39 Oh shit... 2008-12-06T12:32:46 Gamerwiki.org seems available :o 2008-12-06T12:33:02 .com? 2008-12-06T12:33:09 we should try and get them all 2008-12-06T12:33:10 .com is not. 2008-12-06T12:33:12 rather than only a few 2008-12-06T12:33:20 ok, the forum is up 2008-12-06T12:33:25 Oh! 2008-12-06T12:33:27 Thanks Skiz :D 2008-12-06T12:33:30 accessible by admins, global mods, and local mods only 2008-12-06T12:33:52 Skiz: yeah, but that's abxy mods and admins, not SW sysops... ? 2008-12-06T12:33:56 using the same name/URL as an existing site is asking for trouble 2008-12-06T12:33:59 and yes I'm still actually not here >_> 2008-12-06T12:34:06 Prod can add people to the local mods group via the user cp 2008-12-06T12:34:31 Procyon: and non-abxy staff that have local mod status can view all the stuff in abxy's staff forums, so I think it's a fair trade-off 2008-12-06T12:35:07 I could make a sysops group I suppose 2008-12-06T12:35:43 (Skizzerz): i think we can save that for next meeting 2008-12-06T12:35:53 ok 2008-12-06T12:35:56 I'll leave that up to Prod 2008-12-06T12:36:01 OK, 2008-12-06T12:36:15 does anyone else have any general comments or questions that they would like to bring up at this time? 2008-12-06T12:36:18 Or shall we wrap it up? 2008-12-06T12:36:33 I have two things 2008-12-06T12:37:24 namely, extensions 2008-12-06T12:37:31 Nuke and CheckUser 2008-12-06T12:37:54 ok 2008-12-06T12:38:05 the former allows sysops to mass-delete pages created by a user (useful in vandal attacks), and the latter allows bcrats to discover IP addresses behind accounts 2008-12-06T12:38:39 *** Garrett has quit IRC 2008-12-06T12:38:51 *** Garrett has joined #SW-Meeting 2008-12-06T12:39:35 so, I was thinking it'd be useful to get these two installed on strategywiki 2008-12-06T12:39:52 so... about Nuke 2008-12-06T12:39:57 any thoughts/concerns? 2008-12-06T12:40:23 right now the only one we have who needs it is MrSue 2008-12-06T12:40:27 is there a way to revert the deletions? 2008-12-06T12:40:43 Rocky: Special:Undelete 2008-12-06T12:40:44 or rather the only one we need to use it against * 2008-12-06T12:40:54 so you'd have to do it by hand? 2008-12-06T12:40:55 (Skizzerz): is it mass undelete, or one by one? 2008-12-06T12:41:00 lemme check 2008-12-06T12:41:26 manually 2008-12-06T12:41:30 so, one by one 2008-12-06T12:41:48 so if you get the wrong user then you can delete a LOT of pages? 2008-12-06T12:41:49 is there a limit to the number that can be deleted at once? 2008-12-06T12:42:04 a checklist is presented listing pages that you can delete, where you select them 2008-12-06T12:42:30 what if an account was hijacked? 2008-12-06T12:42:43 a sysop account was hijacked? 2008-12-06T12:42:47 then we have other issues 2008-12-06T12:42:47 yeah 2008-12-06T12:42:54 don't share your password >_> 2008-12-06T12:43:02 * Procyon doesn't want anyone to Nuke:Procyon >_<; 2008-12-06T12:43:15 I don't think we need it 2008-12-06T12:43:20 MrSue issues are 10 pages tops 2008-12-06T12:43:22 it only shows recent edits as well (aka stuff that still shows up in recent changes) 2008-12-06T12:43:32 Notmyhandle: um... check the deletion log? 2008-12-06T12:43:42 Garrett and I just deleted about 50-ish pages in his last attack 2008-12-06T12:43:43 Oh, hey, 2008-12-06T12:43:48 speaking of vandals, 2008-12-06T12:44:01 has anyone noticed an increase of those like 10 character insert things? 2008-12-06T12:44:13 Like, nothing will be added except something random like "sgjtywgvh1" 2008-12-06T12:44:21 Anyone know what the heck that's about? 2008-12-06T12:45:03 Nobody? 2008-12-06T12:45:10 nope 2008-12-06T12:45:46 Alright, well, we should bring this to a close. Skiz: If you want to install Nuke, I'm fine with it. I mean, as long as only sysops can use it, then if you want to use it, it's there, and if you don't, you don't have to. 2008-12-06T12:45:53 As for CheckUser, 2008-12-06T12:46:01 that's a bag of worms that I know Prod is concerned about, 2008-12-06T12:46:11 and we should probably put it to the top of the next meeting. 2008-12-06T12:46:30 Proc: I saw one page like that 2008-12-06T12:46:35 Skiz, are you ok with tabling the issue for now? 2008-12-06T12:46:39 sure 2008-12-06T12:46:44 Cuz it seems like this meeting has run out of steam. 2008-12-06T12:46:46 OK. 2008-12-06T12:46:52 I want to thank everyone so much for coming. 2008-12-06T12:46:56 yeah, it looks like everything on the agenda has been covered 2008-12-06T12:46:59 I'm really really excited about things, 2008-12-06T12:47:03 in case anyone can't tell ^_^ 2008-12-06T12:47:09 But most of all, 2008-12-06T12:47:23 I'm excited to be working with what I think is a fantastically talented team of guys like you. 2008-12-06T12:47:29 And I'm not trying to kiss anyone's ass. 2008-12-06T12:47:52 So with that, I'd say the meeting is closed. We'll meet up next after new years.