Jul 21 13:38:41 ** Meeting Start ** Jul 21 13:39:50 * echelon has quit (NickServ (GHOST command used by echelon0)) Jul 21 13:41:31 Umm, while we wait for echelon, I just want to thank everyone for their patience. Jul 21 13:41:36 * echelon has joined #SW-Meeting Jul 21 13:41:46 * Procyon gives channel operator status to echelon Jul 21 13:41:49 We'd like to thank you for arranging this meeting :) Jul 21 13:41:51 Bad timing Jul 21 13:42:20 Hey everybody! Glad most of you could show up. Jul 21 13:43:05 Today we've got a lot to cover Jul 21 13:43:16 So we've organized it as best we can so that everything flows coherently Jul 21 13:43:27 We really do have a lot of exciting things to discuss and debate Jul 21 13:44:42 Sorry, echelon is having some technical difficulties. Jul 21 13:44:48 * echelon has quit (NickServ (GHOST command used by echelon0)) Jul 21 13:45:07 * echelon has joined #SW-Meeting Jul 21 13:45:09 * Procyon gives channel operator status to echelon Jul 21 13:45:11 Gah Jul 21 13:45:14 I keep getting disconnected Jul 21 13:45:52 We've had a great year with StrategyWiki Jul 21 13:46:11 Our website has grown so much! Almost by a factor of 500%. Jul 21 13:46:23 It's incredible how much we've done in this short span of time Jul 21 13:46:33 Passing so many milestones. 100 completed guides, 200 completed guides.. Jul 21 13:46:47 If we continue at this same rate of momentum, we'll have nearly 500 by the year's end. Jul 21 13:48:09 * echelon has quit (NickServ (GHOST command used by echelon0)) Jul 21 13:48:24 * echelon has joined #SW-Meeting Jul 21 13:48:27 * Procyon gives channel operator status to echelon Jul 21 13:49:06 And the most incredible thing is that it's all been done by such a small percentage of our actual visitors Jul 21 13:49:13 Perhaps, 1% of our top contributors Jul 21 13:49:25 The majority of everything that's happened with our website--so you guys have really done an incredible amount! Jul 21 13:49:41 It's almost hard to believe Jul 21 13:50:00 I'd like to dole out a few special thanks Jul 21 13:50:10 I was planning on thanking DrBob, but he's not here :( Jul 21 13:50:24 But really, he's been a great help! Jul 21 13:50:34 Dan--you rock with all the server magic you're doing. Jul 21 13:50:52 We wouldn't be afloat without you leveraging our traffic Jul 21 13:50:58 Which, by the way, is massive Jul 21 13:51:31 Blend, Duke, Skiz! You guys are great :D Jul 21 13:51:52 And even poor Teddy, who had DrBob yell at him just recently :P Jul 21 13:52:09 What you guys have contributed can't go without notice Jul 21 13:52:46 Alright, so in a moment I'll be going over a few select topics that we need to discuss... Jul 21 13:53:07 So I'd like for Procyon to discuss the rules for bringing up discussion on each of our points Jul 21 13:53:20 OK, thank you very much echelon. Jul 21 13:53:22 And finally, about the end of the meeting, when we're open to free discussion of any points anyone would like to raise Jul 21 13:53:41 And once again, thanks to everyone who waited so patiently for me to slog through traffic to make it here. Jul 21 13:54:11 The rules are simply a formality to help maintain a little order and are not meant to offend anyone in any way. Jul 21 13:54:33 Everyone's thoughts and contributions are valuable and everyone will have a chance to raise every concern that they have. Jul 21 13:54:50 * Prod has quit (Ping timeout) Jul 21 13:54:51 After each topic has been raised by someone, Jul 21 13:55:04 there will be a 5 minute unmoderated discussion about said topic. Jul 21 13:55:11 * Prod[a] has joined #SW-Meeting Jul 21 13:55:24 After 5 minutes, the topic will close and the next topic will be opened. Jul 21 13:55:46 The topic can continue to be discussed at the very end of the meeting if it is deemed necessary. Jul 21 13:56:08 First, echelon will mention all of the topics he has planned for today's meeting. Jul 21 13:56:31 After echelon exaughsts his list of topics, the floor will be opened to anyone who would like to raise an issue. Jul 21 13:56:31 * Prod[a] has quit (Connection reset by peer) Jul 21 13:56:48 Topics and/or questions should be queued in #SW-Topics. Jul 21 13:56:58 If you have any questions of comments that you would like to make, Jul 21 13:57:18 please list them there. They will be selected in first come first serve fashion. Jul 21 13:57:41 Again, the meeting will be completely unmoderated after echelon's closing statements. Jul 21 13:57:51 The five minute rule is simply to keep the meeting moving. Jul 21 13:58:00 Thanks again, and without further ado, Jul 21 13:58:04 back to echelon. Jul 21 13:58:12 Thanks Scott :) Jul 21 13:58:20 lol Jul 21 13:58:29 * Procyon doesn't mind being called Scott :) Jul 21 13:58:35 Yeah, we have a lot to discuss, and our goal is to generate as much feedback as possible. Jul 21 13:59:01 So I picked a number of topics that I deemed appropriate for our first meeting, and topics I think you guys will have a lot to say about Jul 21 13:59:10 They are in this order: Jul 21 13:59:16 A) Increasing Traffic Jul 21 13:59:20 B) Increasing Contributions Jul 21 13:59:24 C) Forums Jul 21 13:59:35 D) Redesigning the Main Page / other aspects of the site Jul 21 13:59:38 E) Finance Jul 21 13:59:58 After we're done with these, we can talk about anything else that might come to mind Jul 21 14:00:08 But for now, let's begin :) Jul 21 14:00:42 As with any organization, one of our goals has been to maintain a steady increase in size Jul 21 14:01:00 And as a website, this relates directly to traffic Jul 21 14:01:13 so far, we've been doing an incredible job Jul 21 14:01:20 Last year, we were not ranked in Alexa. Jul 21 14:01:41 By the end of this month, we're poised to take a spot within the top 10,000 websites as ranked by their traffic algorithms Jul 21 14:02:12 Obviously, this is an incredible feat that we're pulling. We've got a great website, and it's naturally attracting attention Jul 21 14:02:34 But I see so much potential for us--I would like to think we're capable of matching the level of, say, GameFAQs within a year Jul 21 14:02:54 And I think it's time we set some goals and milestones in terms of our growth rate Jul 21 14:03:41 To that end, we're going to set up a committee within StrategyWiki to closely monitor growth and expansion, and to carefully react accordingly Jul 21 14:04:06 * Rocky has joined #SW-Meeting Jul 21 14:04:16 There are several ways by which we can grow our traffic, and I'd like to briefly discuss a few of these options before asking you guys for ideas and responses Jul 21 14:04:49 One of the cheif means of growth that we have not yet utilized is advertising Jul 21 14:04:55 * Prod has joined #SW-Meeting Jul 21 14:04:55 * ChanServ sets mode +q #SW-Meeting Prod Jul 21 14:04:55 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Prod Jul 21 14:05:18 I believe with some of the adsense money we are getting, we should equally invest in spending on ad campaigns to attract new visitors Jul 21 14:05:52 Be this Google AdWords or some other program, that will be determined later by carefully analizing all of the details. But the point is that we need to begin advertising Jul 21 14:06:08 * AutoProdBot has quit (Ping timeout) Jul 21 14:06:24 That's the first, and most obvious means of augmenting our traffic Jul 21 14:06:29 * AutoProdBot has joined #SW-Meeting Jul 21 14:06:34 There are several other ways we can advertise--and mostly for free. Jul 21 14:06:59 The posters we've recently been designing are *great* for posting at schools, college campuses, game stores/lan parties. Jul 21 14:07:31 Already I've posted a few around my campus and I've actually had some feedback on them. A few people I know actually use StrategyWiki and didn't know I was part of it. Jul 21 14:07:49 (One of them was a girl! I scored bonus points! ;) Jul 21 14:08:25 But these are going to do well for us, I feel. We're definitely going to begin utilizing them and making them available to anyone who wants to print/distribute them. Jul 21 14:09:16 Another method of advertising is SEO. I'm no longer very acquainted with this, so we'll probably have to brush up on it or get a specialist to examine our site Jul 21 14:09:32 But by better organizing our pages to be google-friendly, we will gain more natural seach engine referrals Jul 21 14:09:41 Right now Wikipedia is our biggest referrer Jul 21 14:09:48 * Prod[a] has joined #SW-Meeting Jul 21 14:09:49 * ChanServ sets mode +q #SW-Meeting Prod[a] Jul 21 14:09:49 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to Prod[a] Jul 21 14:09:54 And though that's really great, I'd like that to shift to Google and Yahoo Jul 21 14:10:00 * IRbaboon is now known as IRbaboon[away] Jul 21 14:10:12 As users searching for "Zelda strategy guide" or "Pokemon hints" will land on our site. Jul 21 14:10:47 So this will require additional attention to ensure search engines begin to appreciate our content Jul 21 14:10:58 * Prod has quit (Ping timeout) Jul 21 14:11:21 Alright, I'd like to open this for discussion. I believe I've covered what I need to in regards to increasing our traffic via advertising. Jul 21 14:11:29 * Procyon sets mode -m #SW-Meeting Jul 21 14:11:43 We'll have more related details when we move onto the next topic :) Jul 21 14:11:47 they're very closely related. Jul 21 14:12:00 I guess I'll be the first to jump into the fire :P Jul 21 14:12:04 Well, Jul 21 14:12:41 I think advertising is out of the question. Server finance has seen it's dips and spikes, so at the moment we really cant tell whether or not we can facilitate the cost of advertising. Jul 21 14:12:57 * Prod[a] has changed the topic to: The official StrategyWiki meeting channel - Current Topic: Increasing Traffic - Suggest new topics in #SW-Topics This channel is logged and will be posted online Jul 21 14:13:01 ness, if money was not an issue, Jul 21 14:13:03 In the immediate future, you're right. But remember topic "E" that I suggested. Jul 21 14:13:09 Finance. Jul 21 14:13:14 Because SW is a community-driven project, we should resort to advertising methods that power communities, not businesses Jul 21 14:13:18 We're going to work on this, very carefully. Jul 21 14:13:21 what would you consider doing if we didn't have to worry about money? Jul 21 14:13:37 Be it so word of mouth, and SEO. Plus, with a forum, word of mouth becomes incredibly powerful Jul 21 14:13:47 Oh, no doubt. Jul 21 14:13:57 Yes, putting out our name on gaming forums would help greatly Jul 21 14:13:58 It's too early to tell without a forum whether or not advertising is truly appropriate Jul 21 14:13:58 But even Google advertises its services. Jul 21 14:14:09 yes, but SW is not complete Jul 21 14:14:21 Not in terms of guides, but in features Jul 21 14:14:28 We do intend to work on that. Note topic "C" :P Jul 21 14:14:33 Yes :P Jul 21 14:14:41 We fully realized this when we came out with the outline Jul 21 14:14:49 Trust us! You're jumping the gun ;) Jul 21 14:14:56 Which is why I think advertising is not yet debatable. :P Jul 21 14:14:59 hehe Jul 21 14:15:00 Alright Jul 21 14:15:06 I'd like to hear what ness has to say. Jul 21 14:15:19 I think that the posters would be great as well, once we decide on a few good ones. We could contact companies and see if they wouldn't mind us putting up a poster or two Jul 21 14:15:21 What would you suggest? Jul 21 14:15:39 I'd like to do black-and-white as well as full-color posters. Jul 21 14:15:46 The latter will cost more money, obviously Jul 21 14:15:48 But they look slick Jul 21 14:15:48 How about podcast ads? Jul 21 14:15:51 I don't mean to hog the spotlight, but I suggest we finish up with a forum before we consider advertising Jul 21 14:15:59 And we could print in bulk Jul 21 14:16:07 (ness): i think the two can be done in parallel Jul 21 14:16:10 A forum can do magic that makes advertising out of the question Jul 21 14:16:23 Prod: exactly. Everything will be done concurrently. Jul 21 14:16:32 We'll just have to wait until it's necessary, I think Jul 21 14:16:34 ness: but we need to make people aware of who we are and what we do Jul 21 14:16:42 just be careful when advertising on other forums Jul 21 14:16:48 There's no point in throwing money where time works equally well Jul 21 14:16:49 Well, it's a very valid concern Jul 21 14:17:02 do not start spamming other peoples sites to try and boost our traffic Jul 21 14:17:04 We want to maximize our return Jul 21 14:17:07 Prod[a]: simple, just put a link in a sig :) Jul 21 14:17:18 why not advertise on online games Jul 21 14:17:19 Oh, and we're defintely not talking about spamming forums :-/ Jul 21 14:17:32 (echelon): yup, just want to make it clear Jul 21 14:17:32 definitely Jul 21 14:17:33 Hm Jul 21 14:17:40 * Prod[a] is now known as Prod Jul 21 14:17:49 Dan: Perhaps we should try a direct-marketing approach initially Jul 21 14:17:52 instead of mass-market Jul 21 14:18:02 I hope I've made my stance clear, which is /neutral/, with a final comment: It's too early to tell whether or not advertising is appropriate. Jul 21 14:18:04 Allow me to suggest perhaps picking one or two websites that we would market to Jul 21 14:18:13 Buy ads on, etc. Jul 21 14:18:20 * Procyon has realized that five minutes is not long enough on the IRC... time is extended to 10 minutes per topic Jul 21 14:18:27 * Procyon -- four minutes remaining. Jul 21 14:18:31 Procyon: Good call. Jul 21 14:18:57 We'll certainly figure it all out before we actually spend any money. Jul 21 14:19:05 Anyone else would like to share their final stance on this before we close up the topic? Jul 21 14:19:08 Good :) Jul 21 14:19:11 We may, as Dan says, wait :P Jul 21 14:19:27 My view is we stick to posters for now Jul 21 14:19:28 But we'll see. We want to know how far our money will go. Jul 21 14:19:35 Perhaps we should try and survey newcomers to see where they heard about us? Jul 21 14:19:44 Ooh, I like that. Jul 21 14:19:48 posters, and word-of-mouth, just tell your friends, have them tell their friends, etc. Jul 21 14:19:49 That's an excellent idea. Jul 21 14:19:50 Finally, do not forget SEO. Jul 21 14:19:53 Not a bad suggestion! Jul 21 14:20:01 Yes, SEO is equally of interest Jul 21 14:20:02 That's great, actually Jul 21 14:20:07 If we could add a survey to the front page "How did you hear of SW?" Jul 21 14:20:10 yes, SEO would help tremendously Jul 21 14:20:19 we could add it to the login screen Jul 21 14:20:21 Procyon: add it to the welcome message Jul 21 14:20:22 (Procyon): I think that could come with a forum very easily Jul 21 14:20:25 polls Jul 21 14:20:34 yeah, Prod's right Jul 21 14:20:42 I want to consider redesigning our mainpage and category pages specifically Jul 21 14:20:51 to be better SEOed as well as easier to use Jul 21 14:20:52 yes, we'll discuss polls in topic (c) most likely Jul 21 14:20:54 yeah, uncyclopedia has a poll feature Jul 21 14:20:57 We can much easily facilitate a questionnaire on a forum rather than through a wiki Jul 21 14:21:04 Rocky: it's more of a hack than a feature Jul 21 14:21:05 Exactly Jul 21 14:21:13 oh Jul 21 14:21:13 And we will be forming committees on each of these topics at the end of the meeting. Jul 21 14:21:17 * Procyon -- one minute remaining. Jul 21 14:21:33 Final comments go here Jul 21 14:21:45 I think we've got everything, for the most part. Jul 21 14:21:47 * Notmyhandle has joined #SW-Meeting Jul 21 14:21:49 Mhm Jul 21 14:21:51 Unless anyone wants to add anything new? Jul 21 14:21:55 Afternoon Jul 21 14:21:56 That it? Jul 21 14:22:04 So we've resolved to adding a questionnaire to topic C? Jul 21 14:22:10 yes Jul 21 14:22:11 Alright, let's go ahead to the next topic. Jul 21 14:22:12 Someone needs to save the log and send me it sometime so I can read over what was discussed Jul 21 14:22:17 I would just like to invite everyone, Jul 21 14:22:19 NMH: Sure! Jul 21 14:22:20 Notmyhandle: already covered Jul 21 14:22:23 Thanks Jul 21 14:22:34 to consider if they would like to help in this endevour Jul 21 14:22:44 and ask to be on the committee for this topic. Jul 21 14:22:49 Keep it in mind until the end. Jul 21 14:22:56 OK, topic closed them. Jul 21 14:22:57 Yes, please do so :) Jul 21 14:23:01 * echelon sets mode +m #SW-Meeting Jul 21 14:23:03 I think it needs to be known that I must part in approx 17 minutes Jul 21 14:23:08 Alright, I think we're ready for the next topic. Jul 21 14:23:11 er, sorry :P Jul 21 14:23:18 We can go through this quickly Jul 21 14:23:38 We're not just aiming to increase traffic, but also contribution to the website. Jul 21 14:23:52 * Prod has changed the topic to: The official StrategyWiki meeting channel - Current Topic: Increasing Contributions - Suggest new topics in #SW-Topics This channel is logged and will be posted online Jul 21 14:23:55 As I alluded to earlier, most of our website has been built by a top 1% of contributors. Jul 21 14:24:04 * Garrett has joined #SW-Meeting Jul 21 14:24:04 * ChanServ gives voice to Garrett Jul 21 14:24:09 Most of the accounts created for our website go unused. Jul 21 14:24:18 Or are used to make casual edits--spelling checks, whatnot Jul 21 14:24:57 Not to say these are bad things, but we want to concentrate on building the contribution levels of those who are eager to write guides or take screenshots or do maintenance or something within the organization Jul 21 14:25:10 This is what truly builds us Jul 21 14:25:31 And to do this, we have to do something a little different than strictly advertising Jul 21 14:25:50 Advertising is mostly mass-market. We want to appeal to those who already know in their minds that this is something they might want to do. Jul 21 14:25:59 We have to convince them that we're the place they belong Jul 21 14:26:29 There are several things we can do to achieve this, and they all relate to making these would-be contributors comfortable with the website Jul 21 14:26:35 Immediately comfortable Jul 21 14:27:03 A lot of these users see some of the stubs we have and are immediately turned off by the disorganization some of them have Jul 21 14:27:23 it would almost be better to not have them at all, in some instances, simply due to how poorly organized they are Jul 21 14:27:51 We also need to ensure a more uniform standard of guide presentation Jul 21 14:28:20 Despite our best efforts, sometimes this slips through Jul 21 14:28:31 so we need to redouble our efforts in this matter Jul 21 14:28:56 In all, this is a small part of making the site more attractive. We've really got a lot more we should do. Jul 21 14:29:05 Forums, for one, will help. We'll get to those soon. Jul 21 14:29:24 Most important of all Jul 21 14:29:26 Beyond anything else Jul 21 14:29:33 We have to make StrategyWiki look like fun. Jul 21 14:29:36 It is fun Jul 21 14:29:40 No doubt Jul 21 14:29:53 But we have to really hammer out this message, and make it plainly obvious. Jul 21 14:30:19 We have to show the strength of our community :) Jul 21 14:30:29 By building our community, we'll build contribution levels. Jul 21 14:30:43 This leads directly to topics of redesign and adding a forum. Jul 21 14:30:59 And I don't have much more to say here, other than the need to do these things. Jul 21 14:31:02 Let's open this briefly Jul 21 14:31:04 * Procyon sets mode -m #SW-Meeting Jul 21 14:31:11 * Procyon -- ten minutes Jul 21 14:31:23 I'd like this to be shorter. Ness needs to see the next topic. Jul 21 14:31:33 as for stubs Jul 21 14:31:35 Or, I suppose he could read the logs Jul 21 14:31:36 The Community Portal needs some serious work Jul 21 14:31:40 He may have to Jul 21 14:31:43 Ah, one at a time Jul 21 14:31:47 one at a time, haha Jul 21 14:31:50 those were put at the top to promote contributions Jul 21 14:32:03 wikipedia has a slightly different view of things though Jul 21 14:32:07 I've done some work in increasing contributions myself by adding a little thing explaining why a user should register after attempting to edit a page Jul 21 14:32:09 Yeah but they still do if they are on the right side. Jul 21 14:32:12 Which seems to be effective Jul 21 14:32:14 It's just less intrusive Jul 21 14:32:23 they say that editorial content should be separate from actual content and they put {{stub}} at the bottom Jul 21 14:32:37 Do you think stubs are good? Jul 21 14:32:44 Bad? Jul 21 14:32:51 I think stubs are both good and bad Jul 21 14:32:51 Hm Jul 21 14:32:55 Yeah Jul 21 14:32:58 Or, maybe they just need additional attention? Jul 21 14:32:59 It may be bad now Jul 21 14:32:59 it would be a perfect thing for a poll Jul 21 14:33:04 Good for the future Jul 21 14:33:10 they are good in the fact that anyone can just edit them without having to create the page Jul 21 14:33:23 Yeah Jul 21 14:33:29 they are bad because it makes visitors think that we don't have a lot of content, and they go elsewhere Jul 21 14:33:30 having our ToC's set up is very important in that vein Jul 21 14:33:30 we need a better welcome message, I'd also suggest that us admins and regulars redo the guides for games that we have to make them look nicer, also get all the important guides from wikipedia Jul 21 14:33:31 Like I said another time, some writers see a stub as a challenge. Jul 21 14:33:41 They may not know what they want to work on until they see the stub. Jul 21 14:33:50 The page is already started, now all they have to do is fix it. Jul 21 14:33:56 Some people are natural fixers and not adders. Jul 21 14:34:05 * Prod is a fixer Jul 21 14:34:14 haha Jul 21 14:34:17 I see Jul 21 14:34:19 * Procyon asks Prod to be his personal spell cheker. Jul 21 14:34:20 That's what the wikification tag is for, I guess Jul 21 14:34:25 I think stubs themselves are bad (lacking content), but the stub template helps us identify a page immediately and categorize them so we can find them easily if need be. A big stub notice isn't useful to new users though... the right side is better for this! Jul 21 14:34:30 Well, back to topic Jul 21 14:34:40 How do we convert a visitor into a contributor? Jul 21 14:34:42 it's definitely not good in IE6 Jul 21 14:34:47 Especially someone who is new and interested? Jul 21 14:34:48 stub icon Jul 21 14:34:58 Rocky: bring it up at the end of the meeting Jul 21 14:35:03 kk sorry Jul 21 14:35:13 I think we've done all we can, considering the standards of requiring the user to register before ediitng Jul 21 14:35:15 they have to see something they like enough to sign up and contribute to Jul 21 14:35:16 editing* Jul 21 14:35:26 How about a TODO list for a specific guide/page? Jul 21 14:35:30 but if it's TOO good they might have nothing they can contribute Jul 21 14:35:31 Ech, if they are interested all we can do is use positive reinforcement, answer all questions and contribute to their work (and clean it up). Jul 21 14:35:34 we've also made registering as easy as possible Jul 21 14:35:38 right now we don't have many todos Jul 21 14:35:49 (Notmyhandle): actually that reminds me about the vandalism template Jul 21 14:35:51 I think TODOs eventually get ignored Jul 21 14:35:53 Procyon and I discussed briefly advertising on communities likely to yeild a high percentage of possible contributors Jul 21 14:35:53 Blendmaster: I do that for pages. Jul 21 14:35:59 As ness noted, we may need to wait on this Jul 21 14:36:01 some people accidentaly vandalize without being vandals Jul 21 14:36:02 No, DrBob NEVER ignores TODOs Jul 21 14:36:05 * Procyon -- 5 minutes Jul 21 14:36:06 Penny Arcade ftw. Jul 21 14:36:12 Yes... Jul 21 14:36:12 Indeed Jul 21 14:36:12 How about putting a link to a TODO from the stub template? Jul 21 14:36:24 (does Penny Arcade have an advertising forum?) Jul 21 14:36:33 I don't know Jul 21 14:36:36 They have a forum. Jul 21 14:36:37 but we could buy ads Jul 21 14:36:41 I dunno about an advertising forum. Jul 21 14:36:47 Do Todo lists get categorized? Jul 21 14:36:50 we need a Todo cat Jul 21 14:36:53 we could have better documentation that explains how to make a stub into a not-stub Jul 21 14:36:54 i think they do Jul 21 14:37:01 there's already been a gaming wiki started by Penny Arcade users (Gaming Wiki, I think( Jul 21 14:37:03 Notmyhandle: yes they do Jul 21 14:37:03 I need to part Jul 21 14:37:04 and i need my cookies Jul 21 14:37:07 so the interest is definitely there Jul 21 14:37:08 Sorry guys :( Jul 21 14:37:10 farewell ness Jul 21 14:37:12 byes Jul 21 14:37:13 bye Jul 21 14:37:14 cya Jul 21 14:37:19 Alright, later everyone Jul 21 14:37:21 Have fun :) Jul 21 14:37:23 Todo cat needs to be listed on the cleanup project page Jul 21 14:37:24 Cya ness Jul 21 14:37:26 damn, by ness :( Jul 21 14:37:28 Another idea is to maybe get bloggers to write about us Jul 21 14:37:31 By emailing them Jul 21 14:37:33 later. Jul 21 14:37:34 * ness has left #SW-Meeting (Leaving) Jul 21 14:37:40 "Hey, we've got a cool website. Would you care to feature us?" Jul 21 14:37:54 one thing we need is "real world" exposure Jul 21 14:38:07 most of the people we are advertising to are internet users Jul 21 14:38:15 they know about gamefaqs and the amount of content already Jul 21 14:38:16 there Jul 21 14:38:21 we have to steer clear of actual spamming, though Jul 21 14:38:32 if we can get non net users to use us, then they might be a littl emore open Jul 21 14:38:46 groupthink is very strong when it comes to gf Jul 21 14:39:05 Please don't call it "gf" :P Jul 21 14:39:13 Lol Jul 21 14:39:14 gamefaqs* Jul 21 14:39:15 I think about girls. And then I get distracted :P Jul 21 14:39:34 hehe Jul 21 14:39:37 * Procyon -- 2 minutes Jul 21 14:39:39 lol Jul 21 14:39:40 Oh, this is great feedback Jul 21 14:39:41 Any more? Jul 21 14:39:54 intro video Jul 21 14:39:55 category ordering Jul 21 14:39:56 Maybe we should talk directly to people? Jul 21 14:39:58 How about asking game fansite to help fill out their respective game's guides? Jul 21 14:39:59 OH! I like that idea Jul 21 14:40:00 Rocky good idea Jul 21 14:40:02 An intro video.. Jul 21 14:40:08 Anyone good with flash? Jul 21 14:40:09 yes, that would be good Jul 21 14:40:11 That'd be great Jul 21 14:40:16 Or anything really Jul 21 14:40:21 i've got flash, but i'm not good Jul 21 14:40:21 would it be done as Flash or FLV? Jul 21 14:40:26 And we should perhaps form a "welcome committee" Jul 21 14:40:29 It wouldn't matter Jul 21 14:40:31 Once we get forums Jul 21 14:40:33 if it's an FLV it could be on YouTube and the like Jul 21 14:40:35 I mean, we can do both! Jul 21 14:40:36 To introduce new users to the site Jul 21 14:40:39 which means people could come across it there Jul 21 14:40:42 We need to make sure we remain courteous to all new users as well. We need to keep people after we pull them in (not that I think we aren't, just something to remember). Jul 21 14:40:45 Which is better Jul 21 14:40:49 Notmyhandle: I'm thinking about the embedding specifics Jul 21 14:40:53 Right, Duke Jul 21 14:40:59 Yeah I know Jul 21 14:41:02 I think forums will help a lot with that Jul 21 14:41:07 I like this video idea too Jul 21 14:41:07 I'd support the Youtube post Jul 21 14:41:14 Rocky is a genius Jul 21 14:41:19 I'd like to eventually stream our own content Jul 21 14:41:21 yes he is Jul 21 14:41:23 But yeah Jul 21 14:41:26 one day, yes Jul 21 14:41:26 ;) Jul 21 14:41:26 * Procyon time's up Jul 21 14:41:33 * echelon sets mode +m #SW-Meeting Jul 21 14:41:43 * echelon removes voice from Garrett Jul 21 14:41:45 :P Jul 21 14:41:56 The topic everybody's been waiting for. Jul 21 14:41:57 Forums! Jul 21 14:42:13 I have very little to say about this, actually. Most of this time will be used for your suggestions. Jul 21 14:42:34 I'd like to begin by saying we need forums. They're an essential part of growing and maintaining a dynamic community Jul 21 14:42:56 They'll also boost our traffic, visibility, sense of community, image Jul 21 14:43:21 It'll become an incredible part of what we are. Jul 21 14:43:27 GameFAQs, I think, realized this early on. Jul 21 14:43:33 And, you know, they're not stupid. Jul 21 14:43:39 We need to take some lessons from them. Jul 21 14:43:41 * Notmyhandle has quit (Connection reset by peer) Jul 21 14:43:55 (And improve upon them where possible! :P) Jul 21 14:44:17 As for forum software, they will have to be fully integrated with the wiki userbase/sessions Jul 21 14:44:20 it has to be seamless Jul 21 14:44:33 I'd like support of sticky topics, perhaps uploads, definitely PMs Jul 21 14:44:41 * Notmyhandle has joined #SW-Meeting Jul 21 14:44:56 We will *not* use phpBB or any extension. Jul 21 14:45:05 phpBB is highly flawed software Jul 21 14:45:14 It's one of the worst PHP packages I have ever seen in my life Jul 21 14:45:26 It was coded and developed by 5th graders, and I am being very serious. Jul 21 14:45:39 There are more holes in it than swiss cheese. So we need something serious. Jul 21 14:45:51 I'd also not like to use an extension Jul 21 14:45:55 * Prod has changed the topic to: The official StrategyWiki meeting channel - Current Topic: Forums - Suggest new topics in #SW-Topics This channel is logged and will be posted online Jul 21 14:46:01 because, as we upgrade MediaWiki, compatibility tends to break Jul 21 14:46:08 We don't want our forums to work one week Jul 21 14:46:16 and have them fail the moment we upgrade the wiki software Jul 21 14:46:36 So, while we won't be using phpBB, we will use some kind of standalone forum system Jul 21 14:46:43 That said, we now have two options Jul 21 14:46:56 1) Coding our own software. We have the people to do this, but do we have the time? Jul 21 14:47:07 2) Using an external solution Jul 21 14:47:25 If we use an external solution, that breaks down to either an open source or commercial product Jul 21 14:47:37 There are many open source bbs systems Jul 21 14:47:47 And there are also some very good commercial ones Jul 21 14:47:53 Invision and vBulletin. Jul 21 14:47:58 We'd have to pay for the latter two Jul 21 14:48:04 but they support advanced options Jul 21 14:48:34 Finally, whatever we choose, will have to be "patched into" MediaWiki by extending the sessions system. I can take care of this once we've settled on a solution Jul 21 14:48:44 We will have to appoint a committee to determine what the best choice is. Jul 21 14:48:56 This is going to be a big topic of discussion Jul 21 14:49:08 Finally, whatever solution we choose--we're not bound to it eternally Jul 21 14:49:24 * Procyon sets mode -m #SW-Meeting Jul 21 14:49:28 We *can* switch software later, if we so choose. It may be a significant pain though. Jul 21 14:49:30 Your turn to talk. Jul 21 14:49:40 * Procyon -- 15 minutes Jul 21 14:49:47 Oh Jul 21 14:49:47 making a custom forum is better in the long run. Far better. Jul 21 14:49:49 One last point. Jul 21 14:49:50 ok, we may be able to code it using mediawiki Jul 21 14:49:50 as long as we stay away from mediawiki hacks I'm relatively happy Jul 21 14:49:53 One very last point Jul 21 14:49:58 kk Jul 21 14:50:01 The design has to match StrategyWiki :) Jul 21 14:50:04 of course Jul 21 14:50:05 It has to feel cohesive Jul 21 14:50:13 A single brand image Jul 21 14:50:17 Nothing cheap Jul 21 14:50:21 StrategyForums ftw. Jul 21 14:50:24 :) Jul 21 14:50:26 lol Jul 21 14:50:30 clouds on different sides Jul 21 14:51:08 two requirements for the forums: 1) common look/feel with SW, 2) Common user database with single sign on Jul 21 14:51:08 how much work would it be to update abxy's forums to fit our needs? Jul 21 14:51:12 hmm... interesting Jul 21 14:51:14 well, http://www.forummatrix.org is a good site for determining other forums to use, as you can compare their features side by side, but building our own would be better Jul 21 14:51:17 we could buy a second domain I suppose Jul 21 14:51:19 and via ajax... Jul 21 14:51:27 Very, very, very interesing Garrett. Jul 21 14:51:33 strategyforums.org... hrmmmm Jul 21 14:51:41 I was thinking of the header, but yes, a second URL could work Jul 21 14:51:45 that would possibly require less of a hack? Who knows. Jul 21 14:51:46 forums.strategywiki.org Jul 21 14:51:49 personally I'd rather we didn't start up a third site Jul 21 14:51:50 we would inevitably get "forums-only" members Jul 21 14:51:50 echelon: why not go with the subdomain feature of forums.strategywiki.org Jul 21 14:52:03 I'd prefer if we could keep sw NPOV and put anything POV on ABXY Jul 21 14:52:11 Oh, absolutely Jul 21 14:52:15 I want the forums to be inside SW Jul 21 14:52:20 Abxy will definitely be utilized in the future Jul 21 14:52:21 forums are by definition pov Jul 21 14:52:23 so that we don't have to switch sites/log in and out Jul 21 14:52:25 Just perhaps not as what you think Jul 21 14:52:46 the main problem is, how many forums do we have? Jul 21 14:52:52 hmm Jul 21 14:52:54 good point Jul 21 14:53:00 that'll have to be carefully decided Jul 21 14:53:18 it would be possible for the software to detect the existence of "Category:Pac-Man series" or the like and thus create a forum for it Jul 21 14:53:27 (with "series" being the magic activating word) Jul 21 14:53:32 having one main forum for both strategywiki and abxy has its advantages, and so does having separate forums Jul 21 14:53:35 certainly I think per-game forums is a very poor way Jul 21 14:53:35 But what about talk pages then? Jul 21 14:53:44 hmm Jul 21 14:53:49 well, we could see how it goes Jul 21 14:54:02 yes, how will we leverage talk pages with forums? Jul 21 14:54:05 (Garrett): i disagree, i don't want my discussion about how to play starcraft 2 mixed in with old sc 1 discussions Jul 21 14:54:06 will we have redundancy? Jul 21 14:54:07 talk pages have the advantage of an all-at-once view of every conversation Jul 21 14:54:16 blendmaster: talk pages are more for discussing what goes into a guide, not the game itself Jul 21 14:54:16 If we had forums, how much of strategywiki discussion will be moved there? Jul 21 14:54:28 talkpages are for discussing the page layout and content, forums are for discussing everything else Jul 21 14:54:37 Prod: once the system creates the series forums, game-specific subforums can be made manually Jul 21 14:54:47 I just don't want EVERY GAME having its own forum Jul 21 14:54:58 that will clog the system, and isolate users Jul 21 14:55:00 Garrett: IMDb does that. Jul 21 14:55:00 * Procyon -- 10 minutes Jul 21 14:55:14 hmm Jul 21 14:55:24 GameFAQs' forum system sucks. I don't want a repeat of that, Jul 21 14:55:25 good point about isolating users though Jul 21 14:55:27 Whenever I talk about a game with someone I do it on our user talk pages. Jul 21 14:55:32 there will need to be a forum hierarchy Jul 21 14:55:45 I agree with Garrett Jul 21 14:56:08 but we need separate forums for each game though they can be subforums of the series Jul 21 14:56:14 Prod: what I'm suggesting is that the system create forums on the fly based on categories, if possible Jul 21 14:56:34 Perhaps "any forum" can exist? Jul 21 14:56:34 so what happens if I type fldfjlsmkf,sjflsdfls series Jul 21 14:56:36 Garrett: people could then create random categories to 'hack' the system Jul 21 14:56:39 (Garrett): that could be very dangerous if somenoe starts spamming cats Jul 21 14:56:45 Hmmm Jul 21 14:56:49 Skizzerz: that's of course a problem Jul 21 14:56:54 But perhaps there will be a way for us to monitor it easily? Jul 21 14:56:57 Like, recent changes? Jul 21 14:57:05 Instead, we'll have recent posts Jul 21 14:57:07 all forum creation should be done manually by forum administrators Jul 21 14:57:07 but longitudinally I think it would be easier if the system could automate it as much as possible Jul 21 14:57:21 How connected are abxy and strategywiki supposed to be? Jul 21 14:57:25 skizzers, agreed Jul 21 14:57:29 Skizzerz: you want to create 1000+ nested forums? :P Jul 21 14:57:34 blendmaster: That's to be decided, really... Jul 21 14:57:35 y not Jul 21 14:57:41 * Skizzerz didn't really say that... Jul 21 14:57:44 I have an idea. Jul 21 14:57:48 blendmaster: the original idea was that the abxy game database would crosslink to SW Jul 21 14:57:51 * did Jul 21 14:57:56 * Rocky did Jul 21 14:57:59 If forums are for everything else, then abxy should be the forums Jul 21 14:58:05 oh /me now knows what Garrett was referring to Jul 21 14:58:18 typing in and posting in http://forums.strategywiki.org/forum/StarCraft_2 automatically creates that forum Jul 21 14:58:27 ditto blendmaster Jul 21 14:58:31 well, that's a possibility too Jul 21 14:58:34 yes Jul 21 14:58:43 accounts would be a problem though Jul 21 14:58:48 perhaps a "trusted user" can create forums Jul 21 14:58:48 no, have on a talk page a create forum button Jul 21 14:58:56 but what stops cleverer users creating http://forums.strategywiki.org/forum/Final_Fantasy_SUCKS_ASS ? Jul 21 14:58:57 or any forum can be started, but it has to be approved Jul 21 14:59:03 nah, why not anybody? I see no problem really.. Jul 21 14:59:09 We could one-click delete it Jul 21 14:59:10 with mods Jul 21 14:59:11 requested forums Jul 21 14:59:14 I guess. Jul 21 14:59:15 I like Prod's idea the best Jul 21 14:59:23 agreed Jul 21 14:59:32 makes people think that they have more control, and thus, are more likely to stick around Jul 21 14:59:38 approval, or trusted users? Jul 21 14:59:39 "Trusted User" and "requests" are both good ideas Jul 21 14:59:52 hmm Jul 21 14:59:55 What would all be discussed on said forums? Jul 21 14:59:55 approval could get out of hand really quickly Jul 21 15:00:04 * Procyon -- four minutes Jul 21 15:00:05 (blendmaster): how to beat a certain boss Jul 21 15:00:09 trading friend codes Jul 21 15:00:16 blendmaster: if we were to keep the talk pages, non-content discussion Jul 21 15:00:16 some polls and whatnot too Jul 21 15:00:18 discussing what's for dinner Jul 21 15:00:19 what about tagging posts? Jul 21 15:00:22 I just manually copy/pasted the entire discussion so far, cuz I'm not sure how to automatically log :P Jul 21 15:00:23 if we lose the talk pages, everything would go there Jul 21 15:00:29 echelon: one step at a time, k thx. :P Jul 21 15:00:36 Where a post can go in as many as four or five "forums"? Jul 21 15:00:38 Oh hush :P Jul 21 15:00:41 first make it 1.0, then make it 2.0 :D Jul 21 15:00:42 We're brainstorming Jul 21 15:00:46 So we should decide if we are keeping the talk pages Jul 21 15:00:53 we keep the talk pages >.< Jul 21 15:00:54 we keep talk pages Jul 21 15:00:59 yes, keep talk pages Jul 21 15:01:00 keep Jul 21 15:01:00 they're not related Jul 21 15:01:02 i like talk pages too Jul 21 15:01:05 talk pages for content, forums for everything else Jul 21 15:01:09 agreed Jul 21 15:01:12 have both linked to each other Jul 21 15:01:13 talk pages = "I need to discuss X thing related to the guide itself" Jul 21 15:01:19 right Jul 21 15:01:27 Rocky: it would be as simple as adding a "forums" tab Jul 21 15:01:28 We'll add "Post in this forum" to our guides. Jul 21 15:01:31 now, what should we license the forums under? Jul 21 15:01:37 and forums would be could because some people don't know how to do things but aren't willing to ask for help on a publicly visible page, PMs would help there Jul 21 15:01:40 hahaha Jul 21 15:01:42 via some nifty coding, it could even remember what guide page you were last on Jul 21 15:01:45 if they're gfdl then the discussion can be put directly into the guide Jul 21 15:01:54 we can do that Jul 21 15:01:55 but people might not want to chat under that Jul 21 15:01:58 we can do our entire forums gfdl Jul 21 15:02:01 Why not? :P Jul 21 15:02:02 either that or CC-PD/CC-BY. Jul 21 15:02:06 no, gfdl Jul 21 15:02:10 gfdl Jul 21 15:02:15 for universiality Jul 21 15:02:17 yeah, GFDL makes more sense Jul 21 15:02:19 Or have gfdl sections Jul 21 15:02:23 most forums say "you own your posts" Jul 21 15:02:34 blendmaster: that would just complicate matters Jul 21 15:02:41 but we'll say, "You own your posts. But they're gfdl too." Jul 21 15:02:43 since there's always some people who want to use a site without giving anything to it Jul 21 15:02:47 all except PMs and admin chat Jul 21 15:02:47 * Procyon -- 2 minutes Jul 21 15:02:50 blendmaster: gfdl is the blanket, if a user explicitly states otherwise, then it is not gfdl Jul 21 15:02:51 hmm Jul 21 15:03:10 i'm just worried that might scare some people off Jul 21 15:03:22 blendmaster: so if they put "THIS POST IS NOT GFDL" in their sig it counts? Jul 21 15:03:24 we'll just have to see Jul 21 15:03:28 polls!!! Jul 21 15:03:32 :D Jul 21 15:03:34 er, reply to Skizzerz sorry Jul 21 15:03:35 :p Jul 21 15:03:38 yeah Jul 21 15:03:46 I'm not sure how many people are concerned with the ownership of their forum posts. Jul 21 15:03:47 choice at create account Jul 21 15:03:50 * Skizzerz thinks that it is allowed based of gfdl's wording Jul 21 15:03:59 GameFAQs discards posts after a certain time Jul 21 15:04:09 per post basis would be better Jul 21 15:04:12 so I don't think many people are concerned about longitudinal existence Jul 21 15:04:15 a checkbox Jul 21 15:04:24 in create account Jul 21 15:04:30 on a humorous note Jul 21 15:04:30 * Procyon -- we're under one minute. Jul 21 15:04:31 no, not even in create account Jul 21 15:04:34 in the preferences Jul 21 15:04:35 we should create Jul 21 15:04:40 swchan.strategywiki.org Jul 21 15:04:41 :P Jul 21 15:04:43 (Kidding!) Jul 21 15:04:46 ? Jul 21 15:04:48 y not Jul 21 15:04:50 i suggest we extend conversation an extra few minutes Jul 21 15:04:51 do it Jul 21 15:04:54 Haha Jul 21 15:05:08 Dukeruckley: we've already extended it from 10 to 15 Jul 21 15:05:11 * Procyon time Jul 21 15:05:14 imageboards ftw Jul 21 15:05:15 or not, if we feel done then Jul 21 15:05:23 we'll continue discussion later. Jul 21 15:05:26 we have to move on Jul 21 15:05:26 yes Jul 21 15:05:30 I think, Jul 21 15:05:40 we'll try leaving the +m off for a while, Jul 21 15:05:44 ok Jul 21 15:05:48 be more organic Jul 21 15:05:49 Try to wait until echelon opens the floor. Jul 21 15:05:58 what's +M Jul 21 15:05:59 Please do try :P Jul 21 15:06:07 Topic D: Jul 21 15:06:08 moderated Jul 21 15:06:10 Redesigning the homepage. Jul 21 15:06:10 Rocky: it makes all of us SFTU Jul 21 15:06:21 STFUAJPG Jul 21 15:06:24 ... Jul 21 15:06:30 lol Jul 21 15:06:31 Garret, Rocky, Procyon, please take this into another channel Jul 21 15:06:34 * echelon sets mode +m #SW-Meeting Jul 21 15:06:53 We have a decent homepage now that has fulfilled our needs for awhile. Jul 21 15:07:01 But I really want to begin to appeal to new visitors Jul 21 15:07:09 To make it as easy as possible to navigate Jul 21 15:07:12 and to get to where you're going Jul 21 15:07:24 It needs to be much more visually appealing, to attract users to use the site Jul 21 15:07:32 And also, it has to be SEOed more creatively. Jul 21 15:07:43 So, all of these things combined, our homepage needs a lot of work. Jul 21 15:07:51 * Prod has changed the topic to: The official StrategyWiki meeting channel - Current Topic: Redesign aspects - Suggest new topics in #SW-Topics This channel is logged and will be posted online Jul 21 15:07:59 This isn't a bad thing, but it needs a great deal of discussion Jul 21 15:08:06 We need to take from what other websites have done Jul 21 15:08:25 Wikipedia, for one, was a good guide. But we also need to look at what GameFAQs and other major game sites are doing. Jul 21 15:08:33 They make their homepages very appealing to visitors Jul 21 15:08:39 Lots of pictures Jul 21 15:08:44 Lots of stuff to click on Jul 21 15:08:47 And easy navigation Jul 21 15:08:53 We need to copy from this Jul 21 15:09:00 THey also SEO their content, as is plainly obvious Jul 21 15:09:20 One thing we won't be doing: GameFAQs devotes a lot of its space to advertising GameSpot. We won;'t be advertising Abxy at this point. Jul 21 15:09:27 We just want to advertise our own services. Jul 21 15:09:38 We have to make apparent what our website is at first glance Jul 21 15:09:55 But also how to reach the content that you want (or simply what looks interesting) as fast and easily as possible. Jul 21 15:10:01 This goes beyond the homepage even Jul 21 15:10:10 Specifically into the realm of categories and categorization Jul 21 15:10:15 As well as the guide navigation itself Jul 21 15:10:27 Some people have noted that our current TOCs are somewhat confusing Jul 21 15:10:33 we need to carefully listen to what is being said Jul 21 15:10:50 and get as much opinion and as many ideas as we can concerning how we could do this better. Jul 21 15:10:57 Everything has to be carefully rethought Jul 21 15:11:04 And, if found lacking, needs to be improved. Jul 21 15:11:22 We have to be easy to use for the average internet user. Jul 21 15:11:26 And by that, I mean Joe AOLer. Jul 21 15:11:38 It has to look cool Jul 21 15:11:46 we're doing a good job so far, but we have better yet still to do Jul 21 15:12:02 Again, to reiterate, let's take a lesson from our competition. Jul 21 15:12:08 It's certainly gotten them far. Jul 21 15:12:15 Alright, open discussion. Jul 21 15:12:17 * echelon sets mode -m #SW-Meeting Jul 21 15:12:18 One word, vid-e-oh, some clouds uncovering the true meaning of game guides, the navs and how to navigate and use the site, maybe music or something Jul 21 15:12:26 the main page doesn't say anywhere that people need to register to constribute Jul 21 15:12:40 good point Jul 21 15:12:41 the main page definately looks to simple Jul 21 15:12:42 the jump in and improve something links to userlogin, isn't that enough? Jul 21 15:12:54 might as well be a text base front page... Jul 21 15:13:04 if we're going to have a video intro, we might as well go for a portal page like http://www.wikipedia.org. Jul 21 15:13:08 our front page is severely lacking Jul 21 15:13:10 * Procyon -- 10 minutes Jul 21 15:13:12 This would be especially helpful if we launch Japanese/Korean/etc. versions as echelon has previously suggested. Jul 21 15:13:14 it needs more pics (which I tried with the CotM boxart) Jul 21 15:13:20 I like what Google Reader does with the intro video Jul 21 15:13:27 This has the added advantage of avoiding installing the YouTube extension. Until we can find an elegant way I'd like to avoid inline FLV Jul 21 15:13:28 we could do a front page reskin Jul 21 15:13:30 i do not like video intros... Jul 21 15:13:31 http://www.rubyonrails.org/ Jul 21 15:13:35 What about an intro like RoR? Jul 21 15:13:41 They have a pretty cool homepage. Jul 21 15:13:50 Dukeruckley: not a video intro. The video would be but one section of it. And it wouldn't autoplay Jul 21 15:14:04 Ok, thats fine then... Jul 21 15:14:25 no, autoplay needs to be off for people browsing on slower connections Jul 21 15:14:26 we should show our top guides Jul 21 15:14:27 No question Jul 21 15:14:32 for SEO purposes alone Jul 21 15:14:42 plus, it's cool. We show visitors what good content we have Jul 21 15:14:42 yes, show the good stuff, make it more out there Jul 21 15:14:47 Echelon: Agreed Jul 21 15:14:52 We need o feature Zelda, Pokemon, MapleStory Jul 21 15:15:06 and we need to create a "Featured Guide" system Jul 21 15:15:08 final fantasy Jul 21 15:15:11 in particular: OoT and RBY Jul 21 15:15:11 that's one step above level 4 Jul 21 15:15:14 Perhaps level 5 Jul 21 15:15:20 no 4 star Jul 21 15:15:22 It'll be a star or something Jul 21 15:15:23 I like the idea of adding a star Jul 21 15:15:28 Or yeah Jul 21 15:15:29 adding a star Jul 21 15:15:37 LttP will be complete some time in August most likely. Jul 21 15:15:41 And these won't be picked on a daily or montly basis Jul 21 15:15:45 http://strategywiki.org/wiki/User:Garrett/Sandbox Jul 21 15:15:46 They'll just be decided by community vote Jul 21 15:15:51 "Is this guide ready?" Jul 21 15:15:58 we could use the topicon like wikipedia does with their featured content Jul 21 15:16:09 Yeah Jul 21 15:16:10 no, we need a gif so us non js ppl can use transparency Jul 21 15:16:10 I know many of you aren't _too_ crazy about classics, but the Category:MAME page would be of interest to a lot of classic gamers. Jul 21 15:16:14 Skizzerz: http://strategywiki.org/wiki/User:Garrett/Sandbox Jul 21 15:16:29 Procyon: Absolutely! Jul 21 15:16:35 We need to make our homepage appeal to everyone Jul 21 15:16:49 Retro gamers, pokemon gamers, fps gamers. Jul 21 15:16:51 MMO gamers Jul 21 15:16:57 Rocky: it's only IE7 that doesn't support transparency. If they insist on using that AND disable JS, that's their loss. Jul 21 15:16:57 everybody has to see something they like Jul 21 15:17:05 And to that end, we need Tons of graphics on the homepage. Jul 21 15:17:08 Right now, our homepage is kind of contributor centric Jul 21 15:17:09 er, IE6. Jul 21 15:17:11 Screenshots/artwork galore. Jul 21 15:17:29 thx garrett that made my day :( Jul 21 15:17:35 lol Jul 21 15:17:45 we can't stop using PNG. That's a non-option. Jul 21 15:17:53 It is a good point though Rocky. IE6 isn't exactly Web 2.0 Jul 21 15:17:54 some ppl don't have the choice Jul 21 15:17:55 blendmaster: you just nailed it on the head Jul 21 15:17:58 Colloboration of the month should be moved to the Community Portal, I think Jul 21 15:18:07 yes, it should Jul 21 15:18:16 right now the Community Portal is underused Jul 21 15:18:23 I don't know if I've even seen it :P Jul 21 15:18:28 agreed Jul 21 15:18:30 Rocky: How do you not have a choice? What are you using? Windows 95? Jul 21 15:18:32 and it's in kind of a sorry state Jul 21 15:18:37 Featured guide and Featured screenshot would be best Jul 21 15:18:48 on the main pag Jul 21 15:18:52 I think the portal should be at strategywiki.org Jul 21 15:18:53 *page Jul 21 15:18:57 * Procyon -- 5 minutes Jul 21 15:19:00 with strategywiki.org/wiki/Main_Page Jul 21 15:19:04 having more content-related stuff Jul 21 15:19:13 I think Most Promising Guide is outdated, now that we have plenty of good guides Jul 21 15:19:16 this is how Wikipedia handles it Jul 21 15:19:26 no firefox crashes on me all the time and i'm *not* using safari Jul 21 15:19:32 yeah, we need to move from that to Featured Guides Jul 21 15:19:39 wikipedia crashes on me too much Jul 21 15:19:46 Yeah, Promising Guides are.. not handled well Jul 21 15:19:47 We have several Jul 21 15:19:48 Or keep Most Promising Guide, but move it as well to the Portal Jul 21 15:19:52 perhaps we could feature them all Jul 21 15:19:53 a few Jul 21 15:19:55 maybe 3 or so Jul 21 15:19:57 at a time Jul 21 15:19:59 and rotate them Jul 21 15:20:04 until they work Jul 21 15:20:14 like uncyclopedia's pic of the day Jul 21 15:20:15 And instead of choosing arbitrary guides, we pick popular ones Jul 21 15:20:20 that we need SEOed. Jul 21 15:20:28 Ooooh, Jul 21 15:20:41 a rotating featured guide on the front page is a great idea Rocky Jul 21 15:20:51 and have votes and the more votes the more chance Jul 21 15:20:56 it's very easy for MW to do that of its own accord using ParserFunctions Jul 21 15:20:59 More flashy stuff? Jul 21 15:20:59 of it being on the page Jul 21 15:21:04 We need our Portal be more like Wikipedia's Jul 21 15:21:07 very flashy stuff Jul 21 15:21:10 Oh, that eas ech's idea. Jul 21 15:21:11 :) Jul 21 15:21:15 was* Jul 21 15:21:16 as for voting, eh, that will require another extension Jul 21 15:21:21 like the big thing on the middle of comcast.net Jul 21 15:21:24 not as flashy as their italian front page Jul 21 15:21:29 it always gets me with news Jul 21 15:22:03 * Procyon -- 2 minutes Jul 21 15:22:10 we need this: http://what.was.the.question.whyblog.org/buzz/ Jul 21 15:22:15 (kidding) Jul 21 15:22:58 Notmyhandle: we would need an AJAX equivalent, however Jul 21 15:23:00 unless we've exaughsted the subject...? Jul 21 15:23:07 just keep in mind we don't want to be too flashy, but we also don't want to be too boring Jul 21 15:23:07 because Flash isn't Firefox-friendly Jul 21 15:23:37 Well, it seems like we know it needs to change, but we're not entirley sure how. Jul 21 15:23:38 echelon: could we resurrect the 1UP-like rotator thing from the abxy alpha? Jul 21 15:23:45 no Jul 21 15:23:46 This is where a focus committee will come in handy. Jul 21 15:23:47 we'll make something new Jul 21 15:23:51 right. Jul 21 15:24:02 Flash is actually great. Jul 21 15:24:05 Whoever wants to help plan the change can sign up at the end of the meeting. Jul 21 15:24:08 I would support the use of flash Jul 21 15:24:12 or at least lots of images Jul 21 15:24:16 i have flash 8 Jul 21 15:24:17 I'd like to steer away from having everything done with Flash Jul 21 15:24:21 * Procyon -- 30 seconds. Jul 21 15:24:25 agreed Jul 21 15:24:39 one thing big companies have proven: Jul 21 15:24:42 Flash sells. Jul 21 15:24:53 Flash works on massively popular sites. Jul 21 15:24:56 Why not for us? Jul 21 15:25:00 flash smells :P Jul 21 15:25:00 * Procyon sets mode +m #SW-Meeting Jul 21 15:26:00 ech? Jul 21 15:26:21 Lastly, the topic of finance Jul 21 15:26:31 In order to support our growth Jul 21 15:26:39 and also fund our various campaigns Jul 21 15:26:44 We're going to need more money Jul 21 15:27:02 And to that end, AdSense isn't really doing a spectacular job for us Jul 21 15:27:16 Because it only generates $0.03 - $0.05 a click Jul 21 15:27:31 Because Google's system is based on mass-market, prepackaged advertising Jul 21 15:27:36 from low-quality sponsors. Jul 21 15:27:49 I'd like to consider finding direct sponsors Jul 21 15:27:53 perhaps game companies themselves Jul 21 15:28:03 We'll figure something better out soon, as we're investigating our options Jul 21 15:28:15 But the point remains--to continue growth, we need the financial stability to support i Jul 21 15:28:16 t Jul 21 15:28:34 We want our own hardware soon Jul 21 15:28:40 And that's going to cost us Jul 21 15:28:53 That's really all that can be said about that Jul 21 15:29:07 We just need to expand our horizons a bit, look for direct sponsors Jul 21 15:29:29 At least somebody that pays better than spare change for ads that aren't even relevant Jul 21 15:29:39 Google, in this regard, has been not so great for us Jul 21 15:30:02 Scott is going to have a meeting to discuss this with some advertising people Jul 21 15:30:11 We're not going to put annoying ads everywhere--that really sucks Jul 21 15:30:15 But we need something better Jul 21 15:30:36 We're going to get some outside opinions on how to best maximize this Jul 21 15:30:44 since I really don't know much about this particular arena Jul 21 15:30:56 But for our organization to *really* grow, I think this is critical. Jul 21 15:31:00 Because with money, we can buy a lot. Jul 21 15:31:02 servers Jul 21 15:31:09 ad campaigns Jul 21 15:31:28 and expand our horizions a bit, to cover things better Jul 21 15:31:47 So, I'd like to see what you guys think about this Jul 21 15:31:53 * Procyon sets mode -m #SW-Meeting Jul 21 15:31:53 * Prod has changed the topic to: The official StrategyWiki meeting channel - Current Topic: Finance - Suggest new topics in #SW-Topics This channel is logged and will be posted online Jul 21 15:31:54 * Prod sets mode +m #SW-Meeting Jul 21 15:31:59 * Procyon sets mode -m #SW-Meeting Jul 21 15:32:00 my talk page had ads for pregnancy tests :P .(seriously) why don't we have less ads for ppl with more contribs Jul 21 15:32:01 Maybe you guys know of some advertising ideas? Jul 21 15:32:01 lol Jul 21 15:32:03 sorry >.< Jul 21 15:32:03 Yeah LyricWiki does that, they have ticket websites and such on their side bar... We also need donations. Jul 21 15:32:07 HAHAHA Jul 21 15:32:09 Google is so bad Jul 21 15:32:12 so so so bad Jul 21 15:32:18 Rocky: Adblock Plus ftw. Jul 21 15:32:19 Just imagine though, Jul 21 15:32:20 ohwait. Jul 21 15:32:24 I think we need a paypal donate button Jul 21 15:32:31 that could work, yes. Jul 21 15:32:34 definitely Jul 21 15:32:39 Wow Jul 21 15:32:40 it couldn't hurt, that's for sure Jul 21 15:32:42 we could have direct links to game sellers Jul 21 15:32:42 if this advertisement company can help us, we might have side border ads like GF does, and companies pay a LOT for those. Jul 21 15:32:45 Google ads is like a horoscope Jul 21 15:32:54 lol Jul 21 15:32:55 I go to my userpage and it says: You need a wiki Jul 21 15:32:56 for example amazon Jul 21 15:33:02 I'm like O_O Jul 21 15:33:03 Google ads are like, no offense, a cheap whore >__> Jul 21 15:33:05 or chapters Jul 21 15:33:05 Procyon: the crucial thing is that they're as non-offensive as possible Jul 21 15:33:13 company ads are often the opposite Jul 21 15:33:18 they WANT to be eye-catching Jul 21 15:33:32 We can approve or disapprove, but I've never seen an offensive ad on Gamefaqs Jul 21 15:33:33 we'd have to be sure it fit our image Jul 21 15:33:34 here's nintendo's sponsorship page: http://www.nintendo.com/corp/sponsorship.jsp Jul 21 15:33:37 I think company adds are going to be too flashy, so much so they'll take from the guide Jul 21 15:33:37 We could get amazon referall money, with "buy this game" links in the infobox Jul 21 15:33:52 there was hacked ads Jul 21 15:33:53 omg, Jul 21 15:33:57 not to mention it violates NPOV Jul 21 15:34:01 blend, that's a great idea. Jul 21 15:34:05 http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3019 has what I'd like to Jul 21 15:34:07 Dukeruckley: we could mandate that ads be non-animated Jul 21 15:34:14 links to other game sellers Jul 21 15:34:18 Giving players the option to buy the game they're viewing through Amazon, we'd get a big kickback. Jul 21 15:34:21 and it's not POV Jul 21 15:34:35 i like that idea Jul 21 15:34:39 * Skizzerz does too Jul 21 15:34:49 Yeah Jul 21 15:35:01 wow, yes Jul 21 15:35:09 I'm definitely bringing that up on Monday., Jul 21 15:35:12 however, i'd also like finances to be "transparent" Jul 21 15:35:16 we would make quite a bit of money per sale too Jul 21 15:35:24 so we see balance sheets or something Jul 21 15:35:25 www.projectwonderful.com seems to be pretty popular with webcomics... Jul 21 15:35:34 since it's our work bringing up the site, we should get to see what is happening Jul 21 15:35:37 Just to be clear, all Monday is is an introductory meeting, a chance to explain what SW is, and find out what this company does, and if there's any common ground to work together. Jul 21 15:35:44 Ech Jul 21 15:35:46 Do you have a paypal account for SW? Jul 21 15:35:51 not really Jul 21 15:35:53 I mean Jul 21 15:35:54 Get one Jul 21 15:35:55 for donations Jul 21 15:35:55 I have a personal one Jul 21 15:35:56 Ech, I agree. Jul 21 15:36:06 what's powering abxy's donations button? Jul 21 15:36:12 The personal one Jul 21 15:36:15 Teddy just sort of added it Jul 21 15:36:15 yes, having an organization account seems less fishy than paying a personal one Jul 21 15:36:16 ah. Jul 21 15:36:18 Teddy or Nick Jul 21 15:36:20 I can't recall Jul 21 15:36:23 abxy and sw should have separate donatin buttons I'd think... Jul 21 15:36:26 * Notmyhandle has quit (Quit: Abxy.org ~ the best gaming community anywhere ~) Jul 21 15:36:40 Wow, Nickle Metal Hydride is unlock. Jul 21 15:36:41 not to mention it'll be easier to monitor (see how much is being donated specifically for SW) Jul 21 15:36:43 unlucky Jul 21 15:36:44 abxy = for profit, sw = free Jul 21 15:36:46 that's a wierd qquit message... Jul 21 15:36:55 Prod: Not necessarily. Jul 21 15:36:58 one thing we have to consider with the addition of forums is what becomes of abxy Jul 21 15:37:03 It just can't work that way Jul 21 15:37:08 SW = free = no growth. Jul 21 15:37:22 Can I just point something out here... Jul 21 15:37:26 Wikia manages, but they're huge. Jul 21 15:37:29 * Notmyhandle has joined #SW-Meeting Jul 21 15:37:32 There is nothing wrong with being profitable. Jul 21 15:37:36 Wikia is huge... Jul 21 15:37:38 Friggen browser applet... Jul 21 15:37:45 digg does it, and people love digg... Jul 21 15:37:46 We're not trying to steal people's work or integrity. Jul 21 15:38:00 But we are providing a service. Jul 21 15:38:04 besides, its not like we "own" their info Jul 21 15:38:11 It's not like Ech is pocketing cash Jul 21 15:38:14 And if we want to improve that service, we need a cash revenue! Jul 21 15:38:21 (Notmyhandle): that's what for profit means Jul 21 15:38:29 Hm? Jul 21 15:38:33 It means what exactly? Jul 21 15:38:34 I also want to point something else out. Jul 21 15:38:35 we're still considered nonprofit if have donations Jul 21 15:38:40 I think it could possibly help us create new stuff in the future too Jul 21 15:38:43 all incoming revenue should go directly to costs Jul 21 15:38:49 Abxy hasn't gotten that far--simply because I don't have the time/money to do it alone Jul 21 15:38:54 Dukeruckley: I don't know that that's a huge issue Jul 21 15:38:55 There is a big disitnction between: people who contribute content to SW, and people who help keep SW running. Jul 21 15:38:58 We're working, but it's tough Jul 21 15:39:11 Nick, Teddy, and I are divided between it and SW Jul 21 15:39:14 people happily contribute to GameFAQs without really caring that the company is making money off everything they contribute Jul 21 15:39:14 Everyone here (just about, with a few exceptions) is part of the second. Jul 21 15:39:15 i was just commenting, mostly to Procyon and Notmyhandle Jul 21 15:39:36 yah Jul 21 15:39:48 It'd be great if we could afford to hire more programmers Jul 21 15:39:54 Aye Jul 21 15:39:56 We could finish Abxy. We could build a news site. Jul 21 15:39:57 echelon: would StrategyWiki's game forums be shared with abxy, or be separate? Jul 21 15:39:57 And if we have a cash flow, we will. Jul 21 15:40:00 yes, it would be great Jul 21 15:40:06 Hm... for now, sperate I think. Jul 21 15:40:13 echelon: one thing you've got to consider is that if SW has more forums and more members it could kill abxy. Jul 21 15:40:27 It could become its own entity Jul 21 15:40:30 We'll just have to see. Jul 21 15:40:30 account integration would be difficult though Jul 21 15:40:45 But note: GameFAQs and GameSpot have two separate sets of forums. Jul 21 15:40:52 they're integrated Jul 21 15:40:53 Prod, let me just ask you something... Jul 21 15:40:59 Accounts are integrated. Jul 21 15:41:03 * Procyon is allowing time to run a little bit because this is important. Jul 21 15:41:04 they have a handful of unique forums, but the game forums are shared Jul 21 15:41:07 i'm pretty sure forums are too Jul 21 15:41:11 hm Jul 21 15:41:20 * Skizzerz meant integrating between strategywiki and abxy Jul 21 15:41:20 you can post in the very same thread from either GameFAQs or GameSpot Jul 21 15:41:34 Prod: How would you feel if people here were on an SW payroll? (I'M NOT SAYING THAT THAT WILL DEFINITELY HAPPEN). Jul 21 15:41:41 Skizzerz: that would get iffy. And I don't know that the work level required is even needed. Jul 21 15:41:56 that's tough Jul 21 15:41:57 Garrett: that's why having two separate forums is best Jul 21 15:41:58 * Dukeruckley agrees with Garret Jul 21 15:41:59 two forums sets... Jul 21 15:42:01 Hrm Jul 21 15:42:03 * Procyon -- 2 minutes. Jul 21 15:42:11 Procyon: the problem is that some people would try to be extra nice to get on the payroll Jul 21 15:42:12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BJAODN#April_fools_2006 Jul 21 15:42:15 rather than contributing out of love Jul 21 15:42:16 being paid for by nonprofit org is still allowed Jul 21 15:42:25 there are already people who do this with GameFAQs' non-paid moderator system Jul 21 15:42:35 Garrett: Again, there's a difference between being a contributor, and being a member of the SW staff. Jul 21 15:42:44 yah. Jul 21 15:42:46 Contributing tons of info doesn't make you staff (necessarily) Jul 21 15:42:47 Nice XD Jul 21 15:42:47 anyway I'll be right back. Jul 21 15:43:06 Right now, we can't afford any of this Jul 21 15:43:19 but after Scott's meeting, we'll have a better grasp Jul 21 15:43:22 of what we can do Jul 21 15:43:25 Hi Matt Jul 21 15:43:31 OH, whoops. Jul 21 15:43:36 * Procyon -- 1 minute Jul 21 15:43:59 And scutato (some of you know him from #abxy) told us we could get 400% more if we used AuctionAds instead of Adsense Jul 21 15:44:07 which would certainly pay for a server over time Jul 21 15:44:09 We need a donation page Jul 21 15:44:13 where we list every donator Jul 21 15:44:16 I think we have one... Jul 21 15:44:18 <_< >_> Jul 21 15:44:18 agreed Jul 21 15:44:18 however, auctionads require a lot more effort Jul 21 15:44:23 since you have to find the items Jul 21 15:44:26 afaik >.> Jul 21 15:44:34 * Procyon -- 15 seconds :P Jul 21 15:44:40 * PowerMatt has quit (Ping timeout) Jul 21 15:44:47 this discussion can continue into open discussion Jul 21 15:44:51 yeah Jul 21 15:44:53 OK, Jul 21 15:45:03 * Procyon sets mode +m #SW-Meeting Jul 21 15:45:05 At this point, Jul 21 15:45:16 there are already a few topics listed in #SW-Topics. Jul 21 15:45:20 Lemme fetch the first Jul 21 15:45:32 1) Regular meeting times Jul 21 15:45:52 ok Jul 21 15:45:54 * echelon sets mode -m #SW-Meeting Jul 21 15:46:05 we could hold regular meetings Jul 21 15:46:18 Perhaps it could interrelate to various committees Jul 21 15:46:35 Obviously committees will have their own meetings, but I think that we should have at least committee heads all meet to give prgress Jul 21 15:46:42 committees should definitely meet more semi-regularly than these meetings. Jul 21 15:46:52 how often are these meetings going to occur? Jul 21 15:46:53 * Skizzerz thinks meetings once a month would be good Jul 21 15:46:54 Also, I don't think future meetings will last quite as long. Jul 21 15:47:05 The regular meetings can be composed of committee reports. Jul 21 15:47:09 And new outstanding issues. Jul 21 15:47:24 I agree, once a month should be good. Jul 21 15:47:28 i recommend sysop meetings to be monthly, committee head meetings biweekly, committee meetings determined by the committee Jul 21 15:47:33 once a month sounds good Jul 21 15:47:43 * Skizzerz agrees with Dukeruckley Jul 21 15:47:44 last saturday of every month? Jul 21 15:47:45 committee heads meet with ech. Jul 21 15:47:52 Not a bad idea. Jul 21 15:47:57 yeah Jul 21 15:48:00 of course, we'll need subs for people that can't make it Jul 21 15:48:01 Does this time work for everyone? Jul 21 15:48:02 saturdays aren't bad Jul 21 15:48:17 * Procyon notes that the next meeting would be August 25th Jul 21 15:48:23 works for me, for now Jul 21 15:48:23 saturdays are iffy at best for me, I almost wasn't able to attend this one Jul 21 15:48:38 people who can't make it can just read the logs and comment on the talk page or something Jul 21 15:48:51 I think saturdays are good Jul 21 15:49:11 Weekdays are tough, but... Jul 21 15:49:13 can we delete the page so only sysops can view Jul 21 15:49:18 weekdays are impossible Jul 21 15:49:23 yeah Jul 21 15:49:26 There is more regular IRC traffic at night (North American time) Jul 21 15:49:57 I'm disappointed not everybody could make it :( Jul 21 15:50:08 Let's do this. Jul 21 15:50:11 Rocky what page? Jul 21 15:50:15 Rocky: why shouldn't normal users be able to read the chat log? Jul 21 15:50:20 logs are viewable to everyone Jul 21 15:50:21 i guess Jul 21 15:50:21 We'll post the date of the next meeting as August 25th, Jul 21 15:50:32 what time? Jul 21 15:50:33 can someone link me the log? Jul 21 15:50:34 with an opportunity to revisit the issue up until two weeks prior to the date. Jul 21 15:50:46 Notmyhandle: there will be at least three logs posted Jul 21 15:50:48 There is no log until the meeting is over NMH Jul 21 15:51:02 Thought it was over XD Jul 21 15:51:03 mmhm, can I get an email of the next topic, I didn't get this one Jul 21 15:51:16 If what I proposed sounds good, we can move on. Jul 21 15:51:23 yes Jul 21 15:51:24 sounds good to me Jul 21 15:51:26 4 me Jul 21 15:51:29 OK, Jul 21 15:51:39 We'll have this mentioned in the Staff Lounge. Jul 21 15:51:52 and CI Jul 21 15:51:55 If anyone finds that August 25th does not work, post an alternate suggestion there. Jul 21 15:51:58 No... why? Jul 21 15:52:02 You know, Jul 21 15:52:08 we need a Staff-ONLY page. Jul 21 15:52:13 there's already a "Regular staff" topic opened Jul 21 15:52:17 Staff Lounge is open to everyone. Jul 21 15:52:31 Hmm... Jul 21 15:52:34 just for this one Jul 21 15:52:39 OK, we'll find an appropriate place for it. Jul 21 15:52:44 Why do we need a staff only page? Jul 21 15:52:45 Procyon: Staff Lounge talk page Jul 21 15:53:21 may crash some browsers Jul 21 15:53:24 watch out Jul 21 15:53:27 Why? Jul 21 15:53:33 Dukeruckley also wished to raise 2) number of admins vs. users Jul 21 15:53:34 too long Jul 21 15:54:00 ya, basically the more people we get the more admins we need, should we come up with some kind of quota? Jul 21 15:54:03 I think that the admins should be no more than .25% of the registered users Jul 21 15:54:25 yeah Jul 21 15:54:32 yup Jul 21 15:54:43 obviously, its not a pressing issue right this second Jul 21 15:54:46 Ratio doesn't really matter Jul 21 15:54:51 not at all Jul 21 15:54:52 I think it balances out Jul 21 15:54:53 naturally Jul 21 15:54:57 I agree with echelon Jul 21 15:55:02 being an admin is about knowing policy Jul 21 15:55:07 not really, for me, we should be ble to go over this limit Jul 21 15:55:09 Our Vandalism kill time is great. Jul 21 15:55:16 agreed Jul 21 15:55:27 we need ppl in differet time zones Jul 21 15:55:41 we have people from all over atm Jul 21 15:55:42 currently, .16% of all registered users are sysops Jul 21 15:55:55 we could use more in the eastern hemisphere though Jul 21 15:55:55 Garrett has Asia-Pac covered :) Jul 21 15:56:01 *.14% Jul 21 15:56:03 EST here Jul 21 15:56:09 CST for me Jul 21 15:56:09 drbob is europe Jul 21 15:56:10 GMT Jul 21 15:56:16 * Dukeruckley has quit (Quit: Gotta run) Jul 21 15:56:22 Rocky, you're English? Jul 21 15:56:25 Oh yeah... Jul 21 15:56:26 yup Jul 21 15:56:27 * Procyon forgot. Jul 21 15:56:30 lol Jul 21 15:56:31 Cool Jul 21 15:56:37 cuppa tea Jul 21 15:56:43 lol Jul 21 15:56:43 :P Jul 21 15:56:46 I think we have enough admins for now Jul 21 15:56:47 Prod, you need to find someone who can cover India :D Jul 21 15:56:52 lol yea Jul 21 15:56:52 Froglet is Australia, /me is thinking of nomming her soon Jul 21 15:57:02 Our first woman Op! Jul 21 15:57:05 You are? Jul 21 15:57:23 She hasn't contributed a tremendous amount, but... Jul 21 15:57:26 Froglet is a she? O_o Jul 21 15:57:30 yes Jul 21 15:57:31 I don't thinks she's active enough right now, but I don't know, she's on a way different time zone... Jul 21 15:57:34 just for the coverage, really, and she does know a lot of stuff based off of my IRC convos with her Jul 21 15:57:40 If you are confident, I would trust your judgment. Jul 21 15:57:54 if she reads this, she can bring it up Jul 21 15:57:56 OK, so I kind of feel we mostly agree on this. Jul 21 15:57:57 And she's not a stranger to us ops Jul 21 15:58:22 XDXD Jul 21 15:58:56 XOXO? Jul 21 15:58:58 OK, Jul 21 15:59:02 NO! NOT THAT Jul 21 15:59:06 Jeez :P Jul 21 15:59:07 lol Jul 21 15:59:10 I don't flirt with 17 year olds Jul 21 15:59:14 Not in my nature Jul 21 15:59:16 We need to wrap up a little bit, mostly for echelon's sake, but we can continue afterwards. Jul 21 15:59:16 ... next topic? Jul 21 15:59:20 Committees. Jul 21 15:59:23 Yeah Jul 21 15:59:28 we need to form various committees Jul 21 15:59:36 at the moment, committees aren't really necessary Jul 21 15:59:43 Garrett, I disagree. Jul 21 15:59:44 I disagree Jul 21 15:59:48 same Jul 21 15:59:51 We need to think things through Jul 21 15:59:51 i agree Jul 21 15:59:54 FIGHT Jul 21 15:59:57 We need to form at the very least, Jul 21 15:59:58 HAHAHA Jul 21 16:00:01 these committees: Jul 21 16:00:03 OK, so what would the committees be then? Jul 21 16:00:09 Front page. Jul 21 16:00:23 thats most important Jul 21 16:00:40 I would generalize that to "Look and feel" or something like that Jul 21 16:00:42 Welcoming committee (people who help edit the process by which new users are introduced to the site) Jul 21 16:00:58 Advertising (on the cheap at least) Jul 21 16:00:58 can we have a project Jul 21 16:01:05 How about a namespace Jul 21 16:01:11 The committee designs the project. Jul 21 16:01:14 project: Jul 21 16:01:16 yes, I remember that we talked about expanding Welcoming to include other aspects concerning user talk pages as well Jul 21 16:01:18 I think that's going too far with namespaces Jul 21 16:01:21 Project: is reserved. Jul 21 16:01:23 blendmaster: THat's a Wikiproject. Jul 21 16:01:34 Hmm Jul 21 16:01:40 Rocky, Project: is the same as StrategyWiki:, you can't use it Jul 21 16:01:52 I suppose joining a committee should be optional Jul 21 16:02:00 namespace is content based. These committees are purely functional./ Jul 21 16:02:01 but it'd be recommended if you can contribute Jul 21 16:02:02 oh yeah Jul 21 16:02:19 yes, the more enthusiastic you are about something, the more you should consider joining that committee Jul 21 16:02:26 So Front page (look & feel), Welcoming (new users), Advertising (posters) Jul 21 16:02:29 perhaps we could have a Standardisation committee Jul 21 16:02:38 OK, add that one. Jul 21 16:02:40 who oversee template designs and the like Jul 21 16:02:41 (Garrett): Look and feel? Jul 21 16:02:56 Front page, Welcoming, Advertising, Standardisation. Jul 21 16:02:57 Prod: I'm thikning something a bit further reaching Jul 21 16:03:00 * Skizzerz would like to head the Welcoming committee Jul 21 16:03:04 Prod: The Front page is bigger than look and feel. Jul 21 16:03:16 I would say l/f is bigger than only the front page Jul 21 16:03:25 * Rocky would be happy to join Jul 21 16:03:25 Any objections to Skiz heading the Welcoming committee? Jul 21 16:03:39 Wait on joining. Jul 21 16:03:42 * Rocky objects, I want it Jul 21 16:03:48 :P Jul 21 16:03:49 what's involved in the welcoming commitee? Jul 21 16:03:57 Rocky, seriously? Jul 21 16:03:59 Saying hellooo Jul 21 16:04:02 posting {{subst:welcome}} on talk pages? Jul 21 16:04:06 adding {{subst:welcome}} to every talk page Jul 21 16:04:08 well, I was thinking that it would encompass the following: Jul 21 16:04:09 that we can all do Jul 21 16:04:09 No Jul 21 16:04:12 That's not it. Jul 21 16:04:13 *welcoming users Jul 21 16:04:18 Skizzers understands what it needs. Jul 21 16:04:19 helping newbies Jul 21 16:04:31 *making sure good, readable content exists that help new users use the site Jul 21 16:04:48 working on the guide? Jul 21 16:05:06 that would be standardization Jul 21 16:05:07 It's all of the Help: pages, the content of the welcome message, things like the content of the upload page. Jul 21 16:05:09 yes, prod, that too Jul 21 16:05:21 *the boilerplate templates Jul 21 16:05:32 needs to be better Jul 21 16:05:36 Help: is deprecated :P Jul 21 16:05:41 Rocky, do you really object to Skizzers heading it? Jul 21 16:05:50 no Jul 21 16:05:52 OK. Jul 21 16:06:06 You are certainly welcome to join the committee dude, your input would be invaluable. Jul 21 16:06:10 but yes, this is sounding sensible Jul 21 16:06:25 http://strategywiki.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3APrefixindex&from=&namespace=12 Jul 21 16:06:33 OK, so that's Skizzer's committee. Jul 21 16:06:39 delete those and all links to these Jul 21 16:06:51 We're down to Front Page, Advertising, and Look and Feel. Jul 21 16:06:52 Rocky: some of them are kept for legacy purposes Jul 21 16:06:52 Rocky: only one page there is not a redirect Jul 21 16:06:55 (Skizzerz): Basics needs to be merged Jul 21 16:07:06 Prod, honestly, I can't think of anyone better suited to head look and feel but you. Jul 21 16:07:06 yes Jul 21 16:07:14 i'm just a soldier Jul 21 16:07:16 some obscure elements of the MediaWiki software link to those Help: pages, and Special:Whatlinkshere can't find them Jul 21 16:07:21 Come on Ultra Magnus!!! Jul 21 16:07:23 db and teddy should handle that Jul 21 16:07:24 Procyon could head the speling comittee Jul 21 16:07:31 lol Jul 21 16:07:33 lol, kno I cunt Jul 21 16:07:37 ... Jul 21 16:07:39 I've got to go guys. I'll be back later tonight Jul 21 16:07:41 ... Jul 21 16:07:41 he's the one they'd be fixing XD Jul 21 16:07:43 byes Jul 21 16:07:43 ok Jul 21 16:07:52 Buy guys, thanks for showing up! Jul 21 16:07:55 byeby Jul 21 16:08:03 Peace Jul 21 16:08:05 cya Jul 21 16:08:11 Well, Jul 21 16:08:14 bye Jul 21 16:08:15 I would nominate Teddy and DrBob to head Look and Feel Jul 21 16:08:21 they are the designers Jul 21 16:08:25 I don't want to nominate DrBob without him around, but we can table it until we see him,. Jul 21 16:08:32 if the meeting's over, should we move back to #strategywiki ? Jul 21 16:08:41 not over yet Jul 21 16:08:43 right Jul 21 16:08:44 Meetings not over. Jul 21 16:08:57 OK, so far: Jul 21 16:09:10 Welcome = SKizzers, Look & Feel = DrBob (possibly). Jul 21 16:09:14 * echelon has quit (Quit: Leaving) Jul 21 16:09:19 We have Advertising and Front page. Jul 21 16:09:21 Actually, Jul 21 16:09:24 Teddy should be Front page. Jul 21 16:09:27 Hands down. Jul 21 16:09:32 agreed Jul 21 16:09:34 yes Jul 21 16:09:41 (Teddy): you listening? Jul 21 16:09:42 That leaves Advertising. Jul 21 16:09:45 he could still be consulted for template appearance Jul 21 16:09:55 I would suggest you (Procyon) and echelon Jul 21 16:10:08 He talks with echelon frequently. Jul 21 16:10:43 from what has been mentioned earlier, you and ech are already working on the advertising side of things Jul 21 16:10:52 correct? Jul 21 16:11:03 No, Jul 21 16:11:07 not the cheap and easy kind. Jul 21 16:11:15 I'm doing more business negotiation. Jul 21 16:11:18 ah Jul 21 16:11:24 in that case, i nominate blendmaster Jul 21 16:11:32 Oooh, I second. Jul 21 16:11:36 wait, what? Jul 21 16:11:39 Blend are you there? Jul 21 16:11:45 heading up our low cost advertising Jul 21 16:11:52 nice Jul 21 16:11:53 posters and things like that Jul 21 16:11:56 We nominated you to head the advertisement committee, the cheap and easy kind. Jul 21 16:12:02 Would you like to accept? You don't have to. Jul 21 16:12:06 yeah, we could do car washes and bake sales Jul 21 16:12:11 HAHAHAHAHAHA Jul 21 16:12:17 * Procyon wants to see blendmaster in a bikini. Jul 21 16:12:25 OPEN SAUCE COOKING Jul 21 16:12:38 you people are weird Jul 21 16:12:49 But seriously though (in order to help close the meeting), is it a role that you're interested in? Jul 21 16:12:51 (blendmaster): do you accept? Jul 21 16:12:57 soz guys g2g, :blendmaster ROFLOL Jul 21 16:13:01 All it means is that you coordinate people's efforts, Jul 21 16:13:03 byes. Jul 21 16:13:05 I'd prefer look and feel Jul 21 16:13:13 I'm not good at selling stuff Jul 21 16:13:17 * Rocky has quit (Quit: Abxy.org ~ the best gaming community anywhere ~) Jul 21 16:13:19 blendmaster: Look and feel relates to content. Jul 21 16:13:21 moar button templates!1! Jul 21 16:13:26 No, you don't have to generate revenue for the site. Jul 21 16:13:28 Hang on, Jul 21 16:13:33 let's rename it. Jul 21 16:13:40 How about the "awareness" committee, Jul 21 16:13:54 the committee that's responsible for helping raise awareness through means, such as posters. Jul 21 16:14:02 blogging Jul 21 16:14:02 what, like advertising? Jul 21 16:14:04 forum posts Jul 21 16:14:10 9_9 Jul 21 16:14:12 spam... Jul 21 16:14:16 not spam Jul 21 16:14:21 kidding Jul 21 16:14:21 targetted Jul 21 16:14:22 no spam. Jul 21 16:14:40 blend... we nominated you because we think you'd be the best suited for this position. Jul 21 16:14:42 ...dumb tasteless artificial meat... *grumble* Jul 21 16:14:52 You could take it, try it out, and give it up if you don't like it. Jul 21 16:14:59 Okay Jul 21 16:15:14 * PowerMatt has joined #SW-Meeting Jul 21 16:15:20 You're only real responsibility is to help coordinate people's efforts to spread awareness of SW offline. Jul 21 16:15:20 I can head the Advertising/Awareness committee Jul 21 16:15:29 Understand? Jul 21 16:15:32 got it Jul 21 16:15:37 Cool ^_^ Jul 21 16:15:52 That's all the position is. We nominated you since you're so good at posters. Jul 21 16:16:03 I will probably join your committee myself, since I like helping. Jul 21 16:16:06 and artwork in general Jul 21 16:16:36 OK, in all seriousness, we covered a tremendous amount of ground. Jul 21 16:16:37 all sysops will be expected to help on all commitees as much as they want to Jul 21 16:16:49 I need to review the logs to post highlights on the site, Jul 21 16:16:58 and I will make the log available as a downloadable txt file. Jul 21 16:17:06 Prod, Jul 21 16:17:20 where should highlights of the meeting be posted? CI? Or SW announcements? Jul 21 16:17:33 We should make an announcement for sure Jul 21 16:17:42 but perhaps start a new page? Jul 21 16:17:43 How about a separate page? Jul 21 16:17:48 I'd suggest under CI somewhere Jul 21 16:17:51 A meeting page Jul 21 16:17:55 Fine by me Jul 21 16:18:03 Well, OK, Jul 21 16:18:12 StrategyWiki:Meetings Jul 21 16:18:19 Great idea. Jul 21 16:18:26 I'll take care of that. Jul 21 16:18:30 And with that, Jul 21 16:18:49 Is there anyone (out of those who are still here and paying attention) that wants to bring ANYTHING ELSE up at this time? Jul 21 16:19:12 a minor thing, actually Jul 21 16:19:52 ok Jul 21 16:19:56 spit it out Jul 21 16:20:04 lol Jul 21 16:20:05 I've noticed that ABXY gets a lot of staffers, among these IRCops. However, SW gets none. I'm proposing (too bad ech isn't here) that SW should have a few IRCops Jul 21 16:20:27 Gonna need ech or ness for that./ Jul 21 16:20:34 zfan could oversee things very easily Jul 21 16:20:44 #strategywiki is low-traffic, and she's here virtually 24/7 Jul 21 16:21:00 yes, but that doesn't help once we finally get more Jul 21 16:21:36 How much of abxy is not represented here? Jul 21 16:22:24 could you re-phrase that? Jul 21 16:22:29 Deviance, Faint, Lattyware, and Tathar are all on #abxy but never on #strategywiki Jul 21 16:22:36 is that what you wanted to know? Jul 21 16:22:41 How many more abxy staff member are there that didn't come to thi? Jul 21 16:22:44 pretty much. Jul 21 16:22:49 Sakurina too. Jul 21 16:23:20 But those guys have to get with it or get left behind... I mean... I don't know what else to say. I want their participation, but some people are still holding out for the day when abxy is back on top. Jul 21 16:24:31 yup Jul 21 16:24:39 OK, Jul 21 16:24:43 What happened to Sak? Jul 21 16:24:43 yes, so we should have our own set Jul 21 16:24:46 I think things have petered out for the time being. Jul 21 16:24:59 Skiz, I agree with you, we can bring this to ech's attention off-line. Jul 21 16:25:14 ok, ech told me to bring it up here :) Jul 21 16:25:26 any other topics to discuss? Jul 21 16:25:39 I don't think so. I think we're going to close shop on this meeting, Jul 21 16:25:43 agreed Jul 21 16:25:48 and take the rest of the discussion back to #StrategyWiki Jul 21 16:26:04 ** Meeting Closed ** Jul 21 16:26:06 So, on echelon's behalf, Jul 21 16:26:17 * Procyon sets mode +m #SW-Meeting Jul 21 16:26:27 I'd like to thank everyone for coming and participating Jul 21 16:26:35 I will post the minutes of the meeting on SW, Jul 21 16:26:47 and have this log available for download by any attendee. Jul 21 16:26:59 Thank you, and have a plesant evening.