2009-08-01T12:05:40  <Procyon> So as usual, I want to thank all of you for coming.  This meeting has been a bit overdue,
2009-08-01T12:06:12  <Procyon> Unfortunately, for so much time having passed,
2009-08-01T12:06:18  *** najzere has joined #SW-Meeting
2009-08-01T12:06:19  <Procyon> I have disappointingly very little to report.
2009-08-01T12:06:29  <Procyon> Welcome naj
2009-08-01T12:06:32  <Arrow> Seems like a short meeting then.
2009-08-01T12:06:34  <najzere> Hidey Ho.
2009-08-01T12:06:39  <najzere> Oh, I've got topics.
2009-08-01T12:06:44  <Procyon> Arrow, no, there are things to cover.
2009-08-01T12:06:48  <Procyon> I'm just saying that on the
2009-08-01T12:06:53  <Procyon> "business front,"
2009-08-01T12:07:01  <najzere> Was wondering if non-active bcrats still attended these things. :/
2009-08-01T12:07:03  <Procyon> there hasn't been a lot of progress.
2009-08-01T12:07:21  <Skizzerz> najzere: if you wish, you can chronical them in #strategywiki so you don't forget them by the time you can introduce them :)
2009-08-01T12:07:22  <Procyon> Essentially, our efforts to coordinate with echelon failed.
2009-08-01T12:07:40  <najzere> Got 'em in notepad, thanks.
2009-08-01T12:07:41  *** Teddy has joined #SW-Meeting
2009-08-01T12:08:00  <Procyon> This has, in turned, soured the expectations of our potential partner/investor.
2009-08-01T12:08:09  <Procyon> Hi Teddy, thanks for coming.
2009-08-01T12:08:22  <Procyon> So, we are going to take a different approach.
2009-08-01T12:08:48  <Procyon> Rather than trying to coordinate between four people,
2009-08-01T12:09:31  <Procyon> We're simply going to establish Abxy LLC as the institutional owner of SW.  We've already taken several steps to achieve this.
2009-08-01T12:09:58  <Procyon> The domains are now held under an account that I established on Abxy's behalf,
2009-08-01T12:10:22  <Procyon> And we have filed for a trademark on StrategyWiki, again on Abxy's behalf.
2009-08-01T12:10:47  <Procyon> It's critical to distinguish the fact that these things are being done for Abxy, and not as myself.
2009-08-01T12:11:06  <Procyon> Although I can't forsee why or when, at some point if I were to ever choose to leave Abxy,
2009-08-01T12:11:27  <Procyon> These ownerships would not leave with me.  They would remain with Abxy, and someone else would simply take my place.
2009-08-01T12:11:41  <Procyon> (I'm not suggesting that I have any desire to leave, I'm just illustrating the point.)
2009-08-01T12:11:49  <najzere> Hope not. :D
2009-08-01T12:12:11  <Procyon> So, this goes a long way to securing the domain.
2009-08-01T12:12:45  <Procyon> We tried to be proactive, and achieve a state where we would not have to worry if echelon ever changed his mind about the situation.
2009-08-01T12:13:15  <Procyon> We've done all that we can, and now all we do is prepare a good defense if that time ever comes.  Frankly, given how hard we tried to coordinate with him,
2009-08-01T12:13:48  *** Teddy_ has joined #SW-Meeting
2009-08-01T12:13:49  <Procyon> it clearly isn't a priority of his, and I doubt he has any strong convictions about asserting his rights to the site.
2009-08-01T12:14:05  <Procyon> That said, it's impossible to know the future, but we're in a good situation.
2009-08-01T12:14:11  <Procyon> So that's about it from the business standpoint.
2009-08-01T12:14:32  <Procyon> The effort to start/acquire a second wiki has not disappeared,
2009-08-01T12:14:50  <Procyon> it's merely been put on the back burner until this situation, and the situation with our partnership, could be resolved.
2009-08-01T12:15:02  <Procyon> It's still a very big hope/wish of mine to get that second wiki started.
2009-08-01T12:15:25  *** Teddy has quit IRC
2009-08-01T12:15:30  <Procyon> So, that's about it on that front.  Does any one have any questions or comments before we move on to the next topic?
2009-08-01T12:15:38  * Procyon throws Teddy a life preserver.
2009-08-01T12:16:15  <Procyon> Alright, well, I guess we're good on that.
2009-08-01T12:16:18  <Skizzerz> ok
2009-08-01T12:16:26  <Procyon> If anyone has any questions, don't hesitate to ask me.
2009-08-01T12:16:35  <Skizzerz> so, our next topic is Licensing
2009-08-01T12:16:58  <Procyon> Yes.
2009-08-01T12:17:06  <Skizzerz> as you may or may not know, it is now possible for us to switch our content license from the GFDL to a Creative Commons license
2009-08-01T12:17:10  <Procyon> Skiz, do you mind summarizing?
2009-08-01T12:17:27  <Skizzerz> many other wikis have already undergone this switch, including Wikipedia and all of Wikia
2009-08-01T12:17:47  <Skizzerz> What we need to decide is if we follow in their footsteps or if we stay our current course
2009-08-01T12:18:20  <Procyon> Anyway to illustrate the pros and cons?
2009-08-01T12:18:24  <Skizzerz> Advantages of switching over to CC include a much simpler license (including a human-readable version)
2009-08-01T12:18:40  <Skizzerz> compatibility with importing content from Wikipedia, Wikibooks, and various Wikia sites
2009-08-01T12:18:52  *** Teddy_ is now known as Teddy
2009-08-01T12:19:07  <Skizzerz> and the ability to import other CC content from across the web
2009-08-01T12:19:25  <Skizzerz> Disadvantages include not being able to import GFDL content anymore
2009-08-01T12:20:10  <Skizzerz> so, we need to decide if we want to do this switch or not.
2009-08-01T12:20:25  <najzere> With GFDL can we still import CC?
2009-08-01T12:20:28  <Skizzerz> no
2009-08-01T12:20:30  <najzere> Meaning Wikipedia content?
2009-08-01T12:20:35  <Prod> i'd say that's unclear
2009-08-01T12:20:36  <najzere> Pfft. There's your answer. Heh.
2009-08-01T12:20:43  <Sigma7> Wikipedia already switched over to CC.
2009-08-01T12:20:47  <Skizzerz> well, Wikipedia is currently dual-licensed to re-users
2009-08-01T12:20:53  <Procyon> Is it true that WP chose a dual license?
2009-08-01T12:20:56  <Procyon> Ah
2009-08-01T12:21:07  <Rocky> didn't it dual licence?
2009-08-01T12:21:13  <Skizzerz> meaning that you can choose GFDL if you wish, but it is unclear if they will drop that clause in the future
2009-08-01T12:21:36  <Procyon> Can you explain why there is a "deadline" for this?
2009-08-01T12:21:36  <najzere> I think we get a lot of content directly from WP, so that's a major concern if we can't do that in the future.
2009-08-01T12:22:16  <Procyon> Like, if today comes and goes,
2009-08-01T12:22:18  <Teddy> Personally, I'm a strong believer in the CC licenses. Seeing as many sites are switching to using the new (standard?) license, and how most new publications use CC licenses, I can't see the switch being much of a negative change while allowing all the positives.
2009-08-01T12:22:21  <Skizzerz> Procyon: there's an arbitrarily set deadline in the GFDL 1.3 for the switch so that it doesn't become a means for users of the GFDL to switch licenses ad-hoc
2009-08-01T12:22:22  <Procyon> we're not "stuck" with our license.
2009-08-01T12:22:34  <Sigma7> WP content copied is either an introduction or an image.  The introduction isn't too critical, since we can write our own, and the images themselves aren't copywritten by Wikipedia.
2009-08-01T12:23:08  <Procyon> Skiz: I see... sorta...
2009-08-01T12:23:09  <Prod> (Sigma7): sometimes there's more
2009-08-01T12:23:10  <najzere> We also copy/paste for companies and systems.
2009-08-01T12:23:13  <Skizzerz> Procyon: if we don't do the switch today, we will not be able to do the switch in the future
2009-08-01T12:23:17  <Prod> where they want to get rid of whole sections that are too details
2009-08-01T12:23:20  <Prod> detailed *
2009-08-01T12:23:26  <Procyon> Skiz: Really?  On what basis?
2009-08-01T12:23:32  <Prod> today is the deadline
2009-08-01T12:23:35  <Skizzerz> because the deadline for switching from GFDL to CC is today
2009-08-01T12:24:17  <Skizzerz> anyway, does anyone oppose the switch?
2009-08-01T12:24:25  <Sigma7> No objections.
2009-08-01T12:24:54  <Skizzerz> ok, so just for the sake of the IRC log, say "I" if you SUPPORT the switch
2009-08-01T12:24:58  <najzere> Aye
2009-08-01T12:24:59  <Teddy> I
2009-08-01T12:25:01  <Sigma7> I
2009-08-01T12:25:02  <Procyon> I
2009-08-01T12:25:06  <Prod> Arrrye
2009-08-01T12:25:06  <Skizzerz> I
2009-08-01T12:25:19  <najzere> Should the rest of the day be spent importing shit off the import page?
2009-08-01T12:25:22  * Procyon heard some littel guy in the back of the room say "nay"
2009-08-01T12:25:27  <najzere> I mean if I want it on at all.
2009-08-01T12:25:32  <Skizzerz> najzere: I've already imported all of the GFDL material on the content import page
2009-08-01T12:25:33  <najzere> GFDL content that is.
2009-08-01T12:25:36  <Teddy> Procyon, should we burn the little guy on a stake?
2009-08-01T12:25:36  <najzere> Ahh, cool.
2009-08-01T12:25:39  <najzere> Thanks. :D
2009-08-01T12:25:40  <Rocky> I
2009-08-01T12:25:49  * Prod hands the little guy a lollipop
2009-08-01T12:25:53  <Skizzerz> anyway, I believe this motion is passed
2009-08-01T12:25:55  <Procyon> Teddy: Absolutely.  But first we beat him with his own shoes.
2009-08-01T12:26:13  <Teddy> Lawl. And on that note...new topic.
2009-08-01T12:26:15  <Prod> how much is left on the import page?
2009-08-01T12:26:25  <Procyon> I think that's how the teamsters do it.
2009-08-01T12:26:29  <Skizzerz> Prod: everything left on the import page isn't under a specific license
2009-08-01T12:26:41  <Skizzerz> next topic: Skin
2009-08-01T12:26:46  <Skizzerz> this should take around 30 seconds
2009-08-01T12:26:54  <Procyon> No,
2009-08-01T12:26:58  <Procyon> I know Teddy has some ideas.
2009-08-01T12:27:10  <Skizzerz> Procyon: this was mainly just to annouce the Tekken reskin :)
2009-08-01T12:27:20  <Prod> which is now over :)
2009-08-01T12:27:20  <Skizzerz> although we can expand it if need be
2009-08-01T12:27:22  <Skizzerz> yeah
2009-08-01T12:27:25  <Procyon> Skiz: That campaign is actually over ^_^
2009-08-01T12:27:30  <Skizzerz> I know
2009-08-01T12:27:34  <Procyon> We made some good money on that.  Not sure how much.
2009-08-01T12:27:43  <Teddy> woot
2009-08-01T12:27:47  <Procyon> And I want to thank Teddy very much for all of his hardwork on that,
2009-08-01T12:27:56  <najzere> Thanks, Teddy.
2009-08-01T12:28:05  * Prod hands Teddy cake
2009-08-01T12:28:06  <Procyon> Which he did during a tough stint at a pre-college program at MICA.
2009-08-01T12:28:13  <Skizzerz> anyway, to all of you who aren't aware, we ran a Tekken commercial skin for around 5 to 6 days on StrategyWik, set up by Teddy and activated by Prod
2009-08-01T12:28:14  <Procyon> Prod, that cake is a lie... u_u
2009-08-01T12:28:16  <Teddy> Which, by the way, was awesome.
2009-08-01T12:28:18  <Skizzerz> so, props to those two :)
2009-08-01T12:29:01  <Prod> and to many more :D
2009-08-01T12:29:01  <Procyon> Yeah, the skin looked awesome.
2009-08-01T12:29:08  <Procyon> Teddy, did you want the floor?
2009-08-01T12:29:24  <Teddy> I suppose...
2009-08-01T12:29:43  <Procyon> (btw, before we adjourn, I would like to get an assessment on how much work is required to switch the license)
2009-08-01T12:30:22  <Prod> (Procyon): in business speak, we can take that offline
2009-08-01T12:30:45  <Teddy> Essentially I've been working on prototypes for both ABXY and SW, but what I would like to do is have both layouts be very similar to each other (i.e., same header, colors, etc.)
2009-08-01T12:31:39  <Teddy> My goal for the design is to keep it as simple as possible, allowing the content to speak for itself, while still looking nice.
2009-08-01T12:32:49  <Procyon> Yeah, that reflects a comment I got from someone who I showed the site to, who was a graphic designer but had no clue about video games.
2009-08-01T12:33:26  <Procyon> She commented that she had a hard time determining where to go, since everything appeared to have equal weight.
2009-08-01T12:33:27  <Teddy> I can show you the prototype I have for ABXY, which would be adapted to SW if approved.
2009-08-01T12:33:41  <Procyon> Now, granted, most of our users will be sophisticated enough to know how to find the game their interested in, either through the search bar, or through the console links,
2009-08-01T12:33:50  <Procyon> But I think it's a good point to pay attention to.
2009-08-01T12:33:55  <najzere> Procyon: Which links on the main page are better than others?
2009-08-01T12:35:06  <Procyon> Naj: To a regular user, none.  To a beginner or less internet-savy, if we had some kind of portal that could hold their hand and walk them through the site, it _might_ help ease them into the experience.
2009-08-01T12:35:35  <najzere> Ooh, a guided tour would be cool.
2009-08-01T12:35:44  <Procyon> That said, I'm no expert on site design, so I really don't know how to illustrate the idea.  I'm hoping Teddy would have some ideas on that.
2009-08-01T12:35:52  <Procyon> Teddy, if you like, please post the link to the mock-up.
2009-08-01T12:36:07  <Procyon> Oh, you did on #sw
2009-08-01T12:36:17  <Teddy> I posted it in #strategywiki since the link won't be archival.
2009-08-01T12:36:26  <Procyon> If everyone wants to take a minute and check out the link he posted,
2009-08-01T12:36:31  <najzere> What's the link?
2009-08-01T12:37:07  <Prod> (najzere): #strategywiki
2009-08-01T12:37:34  <najzere> Holy shit, that's a lot different.
2009-08-01T12:37:40  <Teddy> It's very preliminary.
2009-08-01T12:38:03  <Teddy> Thus feedback is essential.
2009-08-01T12:39:37  <Procyon> Any thoughts?
2009-08-01T12:40:14  <najzere> Looks very professional.
2009-08-01T12:40:23  <Prod> (najzere): that's cause he is :)
2009-08-01T12:41:10  <najzere> Would this mean no more tower ads on the side?
2009-08-01T12:41:16  <najzere> In favor of mid-content ads?
2009-08-01T12:41:19  <Teddy> Not necessarily.
2009-08-01T12:41:40  <najzere> Also, is that just main page stuff, or will that carry throughout the rest of the site?
2009-08-01T12:41:44  <Teddy> If this was adapted to fit SW, a column/sidebar could be added.
2009-08-01T12:41:59  <Procyon> Nothing is set in stone.
2009-08-01T12:41:59  <Procyon> Teddy is looking for feedback,
2009-08-01T12:42:43  <najzere> Sorry, I don't know what makes good site desing. Looks good to me though.
2009-08-01T12:42:46  <Teddy> Specifically: color scheme, typography, spacing
2009-08-01T12:42:53  <Rocky> where would you plan on having the user links?
2009-08-01T12:43:07  <Prod> abxy is not only a forum
2009-08-01T12:43:30  <Teddy> Either as tabs or as a submenu.
2009-08-01T12:43:33  <Prod> i think the prototype is good for preliminary comments
2009-08-01T12:43:51  <Prod> once teddy is further along the design process, we can get into specifics of customization for each site
2009-08-01T12:44:03  <najzere> Would keeping the light blue scheme be a good idea, since much of the guide pages have content based on it?
2009-08-01T12:44:11  <Procyon> Yeah, we'd like to get as much feedback from the community as possible.
2009-08-01T12:44:11  <Procyon> If you don't have any comments now,
2009-08-01T12:44:11  <Procyon> reflect on it, and let Teddy know what you think when you have a chance.
2009-08-01T12:44:24  <Prod> (Teddy): what would be the best way to send you comments?
2009-08-01T12:44:29  <Prod> pm's on abxy?
2009-08-01T12:44:40  <Prod> talk page comments?
2009-08-01T12:44:51  <Teddy> Either PMs, or the google group.
2009-08-01T12:45:09  <Prod> which can be found at http://groups.google.com/group/strategywiki
2009-08-01T12:45:31  <Procyon> Awesome.
2009-08-01T12:45:38  <Procyon> Please give this some consideration guys.
2009-08-01T12:46:12  <Procyon> Restoring abxy.org to it's former glory hasn't been high on the priority list for me personally, but it has been there, and it's even higher for Teddy.
2009-08-01T12:46:30  <najzere> I have a question.
2009-08-01T12:46:38  <najzere> What's the overlap between the two sites besides admin?
2009-08-01T12:46:51  <Procyon> (That's not to say that I don't think it's important, I just haven't been able to focus on it as much as I'd like to.)
2009-08-01T12:46:52  <Prod> for now it's just admin
2009-08-01T12:46:54  <najzere> I don't notice SW users ever mentioning abxy.
2009-08-01T12:46:55  <Teddy> Right now, forums.
2009-08-01T12:47:03  <Prod> and forums :)
2009-08-01T12:47:04  <Prod> in the future
2009-08-01T12:47:09  <Prod> they'll be much more tightly intgrated
2009-08-01T12:47:12  <Prod> integrated *
2009-08-01T12:47:17  <najzere> So you're all determined to force these two together then?
2009-08-01T12:47:20  <Teddy> Skiz and I have some ideas about how to integrate the two sites in the future.
2009-08-01T12:47:22  <Procyon> It's true, admin and forums are it for now, but it's a platform for expansion that we can take advantage of if we do it right.
2009-08-01T12:47:24  <Prod> not force, but yes
2009-08-01T12:47:38  <najzere> Well, it will be forcing, since SW users don't like or use abxy.
2009-08-01T12:47:47  <Skizzerz> SW users don't know about abxy
2009-08-01T12:47:50  <Skizzerz> there is a difference
2009-08-01T12:47:54  <najzere> Since it's counter-intuitive to go offsite to discuss SW
2009-08-01T12:48:05  <Procyon> Naj: the idea is not to force them, but to incentivise them.
2009-08-01T12:48:06  <najzere> Even to users we tell where the forums are, they don't care.
2009-08-01T12:48:12  <najzere> Oh, okay.
2009-08-01T12:48:13  <Skizzerz> the only counter-intuitive thing about it is that it currently requires a seperate signup
2009-08-01T12:48:13  <Prod> once the sites are more uniform, they'll look like they go together
2009-08-01T12:48:29  <najzere> Also, it doesn't hit watchlists.
2009-08-01T12:48:34  <najzere> And there's no history tab.
2009-08-01T12:48:44  <Skizzerz> it's a forum...
2009-08-01T12:48:49  <najzere> And no [[wikilinks]]
2009-08-01T12:48:55  <najzere> I know what it is.
2009-08-01T12:48:58  <Prod> all things to work on in the future :)
2009-08-01T12:48:58  <Procyon> aj,
2009-08-01T12:49:12  <Procyon> Naj, if you look at the top banner that Teddy made,
2009-08-01T12:49:26  <Procyon> there's a link there that says "guides" which will link to SW.
2009-08-01T12:49:33  <Procyon> If the sites are made more unifortm,
2009-08-01T12:49:44  <Procyon> that banner will also exist on SW, bringing the sites closer together.
2009-08-01T12:49:52  <Procyon> Different URLs, same design.
2009-08-01T12:50:09  <Skizzerz> (and eventually the same user db)
2009-08-01T12:50:10  <najzere> :)
2009-08-01T12:50:24  <Procyon> OK,
2009-08-01T12:50:32  <Procyon> let's keep the meeting moving.
2009-08-01T12:50:36  <Skizzerz> ok
2009-08-01T12:50:37  <Teddy> Now that those 30 seconds are over... ;)
2009-08-01T12:50:43  <Procyon> lol
2009-08-01T12:51:04  <Procyon> Skiz, what specifically is the next topic about? "Evaluation of past month."
2009-08-01T12:51:16  <Skizzerz> the next point on our agenda, "Evaluation of past month", is something I'd like to incoporate as a regular part of meetings
2009-08-01T12:51:45  <Skizzerz> it basically consists of us evaluating how the site was in the previous month, and offering suggestions on what we can start doing, what we should stop doing, and what we should continue to do
2009-08-01T12:52:07  <Teddy> (Sorry, I have to go now. Thanks for letting me talk!)
2009-08-01T12:52:13  <Skizzerz> see ya :)
2009-08-01T12:52:15  <najzere> Bye Teddy
2009-08-01T12:52:16  *** Teddy has quit IRC
2009-08-01T12:53:03  <Skizzerz> so, anyone want to start? :)
2009-08-01T12:53:07  <Sigma7> Yes.
2009-08-01T12:53:26  <Skizzerz> ok, what do you have for us?
2009-08-01T12:53:28  <Sigma7> In my opinion, I felt that within the past few months, there was much less activity than normal.
2009-08-01T12:53:36  <najzere> From users or staff?
2009-08-01T12:54:14  <Sigma7> It may have been a seasonal or temporary, but it could be that there wasn't as much opportunity in general to update portions of the guide.
2009-08-01T12:54:34  <Sigma7> But still, this can be used as a basis to start the evaluation.
2009-08-01T12:55:08  <Skizzerz> I was looking more for "we should start doing _____", "we should stop doing ________", and "we should continue to do __________", but I suppose that works as well
2009-08-01T12:55:17  <Sigma7> Oh, okay.
2009-08-01T12:55:22  <Skizzerz> by having actions instead of observations, we can actually implement them :)
2009-08-01T12:55:36  <najzere> Well, what was your point anyway, Sigma7?
2009-08-01T12:55:50  <Procyon> Yeah, I'm curious as well.
2009-08-01T12:56:12  <najzere> I wanted to discuss inactivity as well, so I'm wondering if you're bringing up the same thing as I was going to.
2009-08-01T12:56:13  <Sigma7> If we should start doing something, I think we probably should update the [[StrategyWiki:Milk project]].
2009-08-01T12:56:34  <Sigma7> But inactivity can be dismissed as people being distracted by other tasks.
2009-08-01T12:56:47  <najzere> That's what I wanted to ask about.
2009-08-01T12:56:51  <Sigma7> (e.g. looking for work, etc.)
2009-08-01T12:56:51  <najzere> What's everyone up to?
2009-08-01T12:57:03  <najzere> We can't get a response on the Staff lounge from anyone.
2009-08-01T12:57:06  <Skizzerz> getting ready for college :D
2009-08-01T12:57:34  <Procyon> Naj: what hasn't been responded to on the staff lounge?
2009-08-01T12:57:46  <najzere> MultipleUpload and collapsible elements in ToCs.
2009-08-01T12:58:02  <Procyon> Ah
2009-08-01T12:58:20  <Procyon> Prod would know more about multi-up,
2009-08-01T12:58:20  <najzere> But really, in general Prod, Skizz and Garrett are relatively absent.
2009-08-01T12:58:30  <najzere> Just wondering what's up.
2009-08-01T12:58:35  <Procyon> Not so much Skiz,
2009-08-01T12:58:37  <najzere> Miss you guys.
2009-08-01T12:58:38  <najzere> Heh.
2009-08-01T12:58:38  <Prod> work, but i'll be back soon :)
2009-08-01T12:58:50  <Procyon> DrBob is another person we're missing.
2009-08-01T12:58:53  <najzere> Oh yeah!
2009-08-01T12:59:05  <Skizzerz> I've been updating Fire Emblem recently :P
2009-08-01T12:59:10  <najzere> Heh.
2009-08-01T12:59:35  <Procyon> It is unfortunate when these absences are felt throughout the site.
2009-08-01T12:59:36  <najzere> Regular editing aside, there is admin stuff that is very hard to determine consensus on because no one participates.
2009-08-01T12:59:51  <Procyon> Naj: Such as?
2009-08-01T12:59:56  <najzere> The scope talk page has been sitting idle for months.
2009-08-01T12:59:56  <Skizzerz> *cough*license*cough*
2009-08-01T13:00:03  <najzere> Milk project, etc.
2009-08-01T13:00:07  <Procyon> True...
2009-08-01T13:00:08  <najzere> I mean do I really have to list them?
2009-08-01T13:00:17  <najzere> If you don't know, then that's what I'm talking about.
2009-08-01T13:00:24  <Procyon> I was just curious which ones had priority to you.
2009-08-01T13:00:30  <najzere> All of them.
2009-08-01T13:00:35  <Procyon> ok
2009-08-01T13:00:51  <najzere> I made a list of talk pages I have open questions on months ago and it saw no action.
2009-08-01T13:00:54  <Procyon> Unfortunately, I don't have a good answer for that.
2009-08-01T13:01:06  <najzere> I figured you guys are sick of my ideas, but some of this stuff is being brought up by others.
2009-08-01T13:01:22  <najzere> MultipleUpload for instance, was asked about by some user.
2009-08-01T13:01:26  <najzere> I'm just the messenger.
2009-08-01T13:01:32  <Procyon> Prod: Any idea on that one?
2009-08-01T13:01:41  <Prod> link?
2009-08-01T13:02:08  * Procyon misses MultipleUpload quite a bit as well.
2009-08-01T13:02:18  <najzere> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MultiUpload
2009-08-01T13:02:21  <najzere> I think that's the one.
2009-08-01T13:02:31  <Prod> as in, link to discussion
2009-08-01T13:02:42  <najzere> What discussion?
2009-08-01T13:02:50  <najzere> It's a sentence in Staff lounge.
2009-08-01T13:02:52  <Procyon> Where the user asked about multi-up
2009-08-01T13:02:55  <najzere> Oh.
2009-08-01T13:02:57  <najzere> Hang on.
2009-08-01T13:03:55  <najzere> http://strategywiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Najzere#Multiple_Upload_Page\
2009-08-01T13:04:00  <najzere> Whoops.
2009-08-01T13:04:00  <najzere> http://strategywiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Najzere#Multiple_Upload_Page
2009-08-01T13:04:02  <Prod> kk
2009-08-01T13:04:17  <najzere> BackLash is doing tons of work on fighting games.
2009-08-01T13:04:23  <Prod> i'll look into getting us updated oce again
2009-08-01T13:04:27  <najzere> I think at the time he was uploading portraits.
2009-08-01T13:05:18  <najzere> Okay, so basically everyone's just busy then?
2009-08-01T13:05:44  <Procyon> I have had an incredibly difficult Summer... I know that Prod has as well, probably more so than me.
2009-08-01T13:06:11  <Procyon> It's unfortunate...
2009-08-01T13:06:23  <Procyon> Especially since the Summer should be a period of increased activity for us, not less.
2009-08-01T13:06:38  <najzere> As for the ToC thing, it means JS on high use (highest use?) pages.
2009-08-01T13:06:56  <najzere> Can we redirect to non JS page via server-side scripting?
2009-08-01T13:07:14  <Procyon> Skiz?
2009-08-01T13:07:24  <Skizzerz> hmm?
2009-08-01T13:07:29  <najzere> Otherwise some people will have no access to links except for PrefixIndex or opening toc for editing and copy/pasting
2009-08-01T13:07:30  <Procyon> Any thoughts on this?
2009-08-01T13:07:56  *** Melon247 has joined #SW-Meeting
2009-08-01T13:08:00  <Procyon> Hey Melon
2009-08-01T13:08:04  <Skizzerz> it could be possible
2009-08-01T13:08:15  <Melon247> sorry I'm late
2009-08-01T13:08:33  <najzere> Don't worry we waited for you.
2009-08-01T13:08:36  <Skizzerz> najzere: who do you know that has js disabled?
2009-08-01T13:08:41  <Skizzerz> and is unable to enable it
2009-08-01T13:08:49  <najzere> No one I know.
2009-08-01T13:08:58  <najzere> Does anyone know if these people exist?
2009-08-01T13:09:02  <najzere> Perhaps it's no big deal.
2009-08-01T13:09:30  <Procyon> :/
2009-08-01T13:09:34  <najzere> It's been argued though in discussions on expanding control selector that is would ass out non-JS people.
2009-08-01T13:09:56  <Sigma7> Even if JS is disabled, I don't see any navigation issues.  They worst JS issue is the control selector, but that can be worked around.
2009-08-01T13:10:05  <najzere> Something simpler would be a redirect on the first load of SW to a page explaining we use JS and how to enable it in major browsers.
2009-08-01T13:10:25  <najzere> The navigation issue is how will they get to specific pages in the guide?
2009-08-01T13:10:26  <Skizzerz> a fix for the ToC is to have it expanded by default and then use js to collapse it
2009-08-01T13:10:29  <Procyon> That is true, the TOC is in the Header Nav, and the whole guide can be reached if the Footer Navs are prepared correctly.
2009-08-01T13:10:33  <najzere> they will have to follow footer navs around.
2009-08-01T13:10:36  <Sigma7> Usually, people explicitly disable JS or use an extension to turn it off.
2009-08-01T13:10:40  <Procyon> Skiz: like the Walkthrough page?
2009-08-01T13:10:55  <najzere> If we're talking about using collapsing elements in a guide, it's because it's big.
2009-08-01T13:10:56  <Skizzerz> Procyon: I was talking about the ToC pages themselves, not the HN/FN
2009-08-01T13:11:02  <Prod> the main page has a full toc
2009-08-01T13:11:07  <Prod> and the ToC page has a full toc
2009-08-01T13:11:10  <Melon247> Isn't there some way we could make a thing that stays expanded if they don't have JS?
2009-08-01T13:11:11  <Prod> and the walkthrough page
2009-08-01T13:11:26  <Skizzerz> HN links to the ToC as well
2009-08-01T13:11:26  <najzere> Okay, so then it's no issue.
2009-08-01T13:11:29  <Prod> that should be good enough to get around for the small percentage who don't have js
2009-08-01T13:11:37  <Skizzerz> I thought you were talking about guides that had expansions for a sec there :P
2009-08-01T13:11:49  <Procyon> Melon, the only issue with that is that Spoilers would render in exposed, and then close after the page loads in.
2009-08-01T13:11:54  <najzere> Well, NMH's idea was to use subtocs.
2009-08-01T13:11:59  <Skizzerz> such as http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Command_%26_Conquer_3:_Tiberium_Wars/Table_of_Contents
2009-08-01T13:12:35  <Skizzerz> but those are expanded by default as well normally
2009-08-01T13:12:51  <najzere> Okay, then everything is always one click away.
2009-08-01T13:12:57  <najzere> No problems.
2009-08-01T13:13:16  <Skizzerz> ok, so are there any other issues people want to raise?
2009-08-01T13:13:22  <najzere> Yes.
2009-08-01T13:13:24  <Skizzerz> ok
2009-08-01T13:13:29  * Melon247 thinks
2009-08-01T13:13:34  <najzere> I think YouTube is the biggest threat to our well being.
2009-08-01T13:13:41  <Procyon> :o
2009-08-01T13:13:44  <Melon247> why?
2009-08-01T13:13:50  <najzere> If we are the death of plain text guides, then videos are the next logical progression.
2009-08-01T13:14:01  <najzere> Is there any way we can have our own videos?
2009-08-01T13:14:02  <Skizzerz> that's covered in the next major update of mediawiki
2009-08-01T13:14:13  <najzere> Can I have a teaser, please?
2009-08-01T13:14:17  <Skizzerz> wikipeda
2009-08-01T13:14:19  <Prod> (Skizzerz): 1.14 or 1.15?
2009-08-01T13:14:21  <Skizzerz> 1.16
2009-08-01T13:14:23  <Prod> ah
2009-08-01T13:14:26  <Sigma7> Videos aren't a threat, since they are much harder to edit.
2009-08-01T13:14:29  <Rocky> is that using the <video> tag?
2009-08-01T13:14:39  <Procyon> Naj: My counter argument to that, is that some people are searching for a specific piece of information, and don't want to wait for a video to stream in to find out what they're looking for.
2009-08-01T13:14:42  <Melon247> why can't we just have something like Wikia does?
2009-08-01T13:14:43  <najzere> They're a threat if you're sending users offsite to better content.
2009-08-01T13:14:59  <Prod> youtube links back to us
2009-08-01T13:15:04  <Prod> once enough people use the link
2009-08-01T13:15:10  <Procyon> Naj: My 2nd counter argument is that a video is only good for one method of playing a game; it can't explore all the permutations of possibilities for a player to take.
2009-08-01T13:15:36  <najzere> It doesn't really matter, since people like it better.
2009-08-01T13:15:41  <Procyon> Our guides should be as comprehensive as possible, exploring every avenue a player can take.
2009-08-01T13:15:42  <Skizzerz> Rocky: no, it's called the same way as images are
2009-08-01T13:15:43  <najzere> They only need one way to do something.
2009-08-01T13:15:50  <Skizzerz> Just [[File:Somevideo.ogg]] and the player shows up
2009-08-01T13:16:06  <najzere> Also, we're sending our core competency (walkthroughs) offsite.
2009-08-01T13:16:06  <Melon247> Isn't is [[Video:filename]]?
2009-08-01T13:16:09  <Skizzerz> no
2009-08-01T13:16:12  <Skizzerz> it's File:
2009-08-01T13:16:12  <najzere> We don't even do that for our partners.
2009-08-01T13:16:24  * Melon247 used Wikia too much
2009-08-01T13:16:33  <najzere> I'm not sure what you mean by a link back, by the way.
2009-08-01T13:16:41  <najzere> Meaning a user puts a link back in the description?
2009-08-01T13:17:01  <najzere> Also, since they can't be edited we have no control over quality like we do on the wiki.
2009-08-01T13:17:11  <najzere> It's an all or nothing thing.
2009-08-01T13:17:14  <Procyon> I don't know...
2009-08-01T13:17:32  <Procyon> I think I have to take a Darwinian approach to this.
2009-08-01T13:17:33  <Prod> in the future, we may have local videos
2009-08-01T13:17:37  <Prod> but for now, we can stick with youtube
2009-08-01T13:17:49  <Procyon> Either more users will prefer to read guides, or more users will prefer to watch videos,
2009-08-01T13:17:50  <Prod> we should probably look into embedable videos though
2009-08-01T13:17:57  <Procyon> and we'll have to see how the shake-out occurs.
2009-08-01T13:17:58  <najzere> Yes, YouTube is good, okay.
2009-08-01T13:18:13  <Melon247> Mainly the video walkthroughs I did on YouTube were for SW...
2009-08-01T13:18:21  <Procyon> Either we'll be on the winning side, or we won't, in which case, all wiki gaming sites are doomed.,
2009-08-01T13:18:23  <najzere> But shouldn't it be for the too detailed stuff like how we send to pokemon pages or items on zelda?
2009-08-01T13:18:24  <Melon247> I just kept forgetting to put them on the pages :P
2009-08-01T13:18:36  <najzere> Procyon, there's already video only walkthrough sites.
2009-08-01T13:18:47  <Procyon> Naj: what's the URL?
2009-08-01T13:18:57  <najzere> Plus you can find pretty much all popular games and lots of older stuff on YouTube.
2009-08-01T13:19:05  <najzere> I'm saying lets not REMIND people of this.
2009-08-01T13:19:23  <najzere> And keep walkthroughs, the main thing we do, onsite.
2009-08-01T13:19:26  <Procyon> So you want a no-YouTube link policy?
2009-08-01T13:19:37  <najzere> http://nextgenwalkthroughs.com/
2009-08-01T13:19:48  <najzere> No, I want the same rules as applies to other external links.
2009-08-01T13:19:56  <najzere> We don't link to GameFAQs guides right?
2009-08-01T13:20:10  <najzere> http://www.stuckgamer.com/
2009-08-01T13:20:16  *** Procyon has quit IRC
2009-08-01T13:20:26  <Prod> (najzere): so what do you propose?
2009-08-01T13:20:32  *** Procyon has joined #SW-Meeting
2009-08-01T13:20:33  <najzere> As bandwith and storage continues to be less of an issue, video will eventually kill us.
2009-08-01T13:20:35  <Procyon> sob...
2009-08-01T13:20:42  <najzere> I propose using THE SAME RULES.
2009-08-01T13:20:50  <Prod> please elaborate
2009-08-01T13:20:55  <najzere> Okay.
2009-08-01T13:20:58  <najzere> On Deus Ex...
2009-08-01T13:21:09  <najzere> Link to YouTube for something very complicated or detailed.
2009-08-01T13:21:12  <najzere> Not a video walkthrough.
2009-08-01T13:21:18  <najzere> Same way we use images.
2009-08-01T13:21:30  <najzere> Okay, just explain to me why they're different.
2009-08-01T13:21:37  <Procyon> Well, here's the good news for right now: http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/strategywiki.org+stuckgamer.com+nextgenwalkthroughs.com
2009-08-01T13:21:44  <Prod> so you're saying to link to a very specific video that only discusses a certain part
2009-08-01T13:21:44  <Procyon> May not stay that way though.
2009-08-01T13:21:48  <Prod> rather than the whole level?
2009-08-01T13:21:59  <najzere> Yes.
2009-08-01T13:22:08  <najzere> Like we link to Bulbapedia pages for pokemon
2009-08-01T13:22:12  <najzere> Not how to beat the game.
2009-08-01T13:22:15  <najzere> That's the part we do.
2009-08-01T13:22:55  <Prod> i would say if it's possible to link to a better one, then we should do so
2009-08-01T13:23:04  <Prod> but if there's only one video from the game
2009-08-01T13:23:14  <najzere> Also, do we WANT our link on YouTube videos?
2009-08-01T13:23:15  <Prod> and the author can't record their own
2009-08-01T13:23:34  <najzere> 99% of guides do fine without a video, I don't see the problem.
2009-08-01T13:23:35  <Prod> then we shouldn't restrict their ability to describe a difficult part of the game
2009-08-01T13:23:52  <Prod> i think this would fall more under guideline than policy
2009-08-01T13:23:55  <najzere> Yes, and all guides can always be improved.
2009-08-01T13:24:01  <najzere> We're not afraid of not being complete.
2009-08-01T13:24:06  <najzere> Okay, sure.
2009-08-01T13:24:20  <najzere> So you link to YouTube and see SW linked in the description.
2009-08-01T13:24:35  <najzere> Then you see in Other From This User there is sexy, cam girl dancing.
2009-08-01T13:24:41  <najzere> Do we want to be associated?
2009-08-01T13:24:47  <najzere> I mean this is something else we can't control.
2009-08-01T13:24:49  <Procyon> HELL YES!
2009-08-01T13:24:50  <Procyon> lol
2009-08-01T13:24:52  <najzere> Heh.
2009-08-01T13:24:53  <Procyon> just kidding
2009-08-01T13:25:02  <Procyon> Look,
2009-08-01T13:25:04  <Prod> they get distracted
2009-08-01T13:25:05  <Prod> they die
2009-08-01T13:25:10  <Prod> they have to come back to us for more help
2009-08-01T13:25:14  <najzere> Like on my Dog Island racing videos, I intentionally didn't put a link back.
2009-08-01T13:25:19  <Procyon> one thing that video sites can never be like we can is a comprehensive resource.
2009-08-01T13:25:47  <Procyon> Some things can't be explained in video.
2009-08-01T13:26:03  <Melon247> like what buttons you press ;)
2009-08-01T13:26:11  <najzere> I don't know about that.
2009-08-01T13:26:19  <najzere> YouTube has editing tools.
2009-08-01T13:26:20  <Melon247> unless you add annotations...
2009-08-01T13:26:22  <najzere> You can put text inside.
2009-08-01T13:26:28  <najzere> THEY WILL KILL US
2009-08-01T13:26:32  <Procyon> I mean game mechanics.
2009-08-01T13:26:36  <najzere> Anyway, do we WANT linkbacks?
2009-08-01T13:27:00  <Prod> as long as they aren't rel=nofollow
2009-08-01T13:27:02  <Melon247> it makes us look desperate :P
2009-08-01T13:27:07  <Prod> big sites linking to us is a good thing
2009-08-01T13:27:12  <Prod> it raises our pagerank
2009-08-01T13:27:53  * Melon247 puts her hand up for a non-YouTube-related question/issue
2009-08-01T13:27:54  <Procyon> I'm watching one walkthrough, and this guy's voice over is so annoying >_<
2009-08-01T13:27:55  <najzere> So is there a guideline?
2009-08-01T13:28:29  <Prod> try to stick to something specific and don't waste the users time with what we already cover
2009-08-01T13:28:38  <Rocky> youtube links are nofollow :(
2009-08-01T13:28:47  <Prod> :(
2009-08-01T13:28:47  <najzere> What if there's nothing on the page?
2009-08-01T13:28:54  <najzere> Cause that was the actual case with Deus Ex.
2009-08-01T13:29:02  <najzere> The entire walkthrough was offsite.
2009-08-01T13:29:04  <Prod> someone should write a guide :P
2009-08-01T13:29:09  <najzere> No shit
2009-08-01T13:29:13  <najzere> In the meantime..
2009-08-01T13:29:19  <Rocky> encourages users to start working, but what id the page got moved?
2009-08-01T13:29:29  <Rocky> if*
2009-08-01T13:29:33  <najzere> How does it encourage users to start working?
2009-08-01T13:29:43  <najzere> It appears the job is done for them by someone's videos.
2009-08-01T13:30:18  <Procyon> Naj: Any idea just how many youtube links we currently host?
2009-08-01T13:30:23  <najzere> No.
2009-08-01T13:30:27  <najzere> Not too many.
2009-08-01T13:30:39  <Melon247> My non-youtube-related question/issue is, why do we have such strict Featured Guide rules?
2009-08-01T13:30:47  <najzere> Looks like about 40 or so.
2009-08-01T13:30:52  <najzere> From Template:YouTube what links here.
2009-08-01T13:30:53  <Melon247> I'm sure we'd have more featured guides if we didn't
2009-08-01T13:30:58  <Procyon> It's a tough call.  It can be a good tool, or it can be abused.
2009-08-01T13:31:05  <najzere> Which?
2009-08-01T13:31:14  <najzere> Did we just move on?
2009-08-01T13:31:15  <Rocky> >200
2009-08-01T13:31:16  <najzere> Heh.
2009-08-01T13:31:18  <Procyon> Melon: I don't think we want _too_ many featured guides.
2009-08-01T13:31:21  <Procyon> Naj: No.
2009-08-01T13:31:27  <Procyon> I'm talking about linking to youtube.
2009-08-01T13:31:35  <najzere> Oh wow,yeah there are more.
2009-08-01T13:31:38  <najzere> More than one page.
2009-08-01T13:31:39  <Rocky> yup
2009-08-01T13:31:40  <Procyon> I think creating a set of guidlines would be a good idea.
2009-08-01T13:31:43  <najzere> ~120 at a guess.
2009-08-01T13:31:44  <Rocky> 100-200
2009-08-01T13:32:00  <najzere> Chip's Challenge is a good example.
2009-08-01T13:32:11  <Procyon> Naj: example of what?
2009-08-01T13:32:16  <najzere> They're every now and again, showing a specific way to beat a level.
2009-08-01T13:32:24  <najzere> Example of perhaps proper usage?
2009-08-01T13:32:35  <najzere> I haven't watched any, this is just from looking at the pages.
2009-08-01T13:33:41  <najzere> I'd just like to keep everything focused on SW.
2009-08-01T13:33:49  <Prod> i think the fringe case of Deus Ex should be dealt with by the guide authors
2009-08-01T13:34:06  <Prod> apart from that, videos should be an addition to what's already there
2009-08-01T13:34:07  <najzere> Well, the author has decided to shop out the entire walkthrough to YouTube.
2009-08-01T13:34:16  <Prod> i would say that's better than no guide
2009-08-01T13:34:28  <Procyon> Damn... Chip's Challenge was some game developers hate mail to game lovers.
2009-08-01T13:34:30  <Prod> at least users know they can come to us to find a good guide
2009-08-01T13:34:31  <najzere> Even if we had a full writeup, we're still telling people to go somewhere else.
2009-08-01T13:34:34  <Prod> even if it is offsite
2009-08-01T13:34:48  <najzere> You want to be a YouTube portal?
2009-08-01T13:34:50  <Rocky> proc: how so?
2009-08-01T13:35:05  <Prod> that's an exaggeration ;)
2009-08-01T13:35:10  <najzere> Prod with that reasoning we should link to GameFAQs.
2009-08-01T13:35:12  <Prod> if it starts to happen in a lot of guides
2009-08-01T13:35:12  <Procyon> Rocky: Just repetitive solutions that require you to be precise and repeat the same stuff constantly.
2009-08-01T13:35:15  <Prod> then we can worry about it
2009-08-01T13:35:18  <Prod> but one or two isn't bad
2009-08-01T13:35:29  <Rocky> it's pretty fun
2009-08-01T13:35:30  <najzere> You want full entropy to occur before doing something?
2009-08-01T13:35:39  <najzere> Shouldn't we be making guidelines as issue arise?
2009-08-01T13:35:46  <Procyon> No, quite honestly, the best idea would be to partner up with one of the URLs that naj listed.
2009-08-01T13:35:47  <Prod> it's still just a risk
2009-08-01T13:35:49  <najzere> Who decides at what level it has now become "urgent"?
2009-08-01T13:35:49  <Prod> not an issue
2009-08-01T13:36:00  <najzere> I'm making it an issue.
2009-08-01T13:36:15  <Prod> once concensus is reached that it's an issue
2009-08-01T13:36:20  <najzere> Haha
2009-08-01T13:36:24  <najzere> Okay, so never.
2009-08-01T13:36:25  <Prod> i think it's something to watch
2009-08-01T13:36:29  <Prod> but not a problem yet
2009-08-01T13:36:30  <najzere> Uh huh...
2009-08-01T13:36:34  <Procyon> Naj:
2009-08-01T13:36:37  <Procyon> What's your proposal?
2009-08-01T13:36:45  <najzere> I think I already said it.
2009-08-01T13:36:50  <Procyon> Do you propose to remove ALL of the current existing YouTube links?
2009-08-01T13:36:53  <najzere> Use external links for specific shit not walkthroughs.
2009-08-01T13:37:05  <najzere> Same no matter if its YouTube or some other site.
2009-08-01T13:37:06  <Prod> so what should be done for Deus Ex?
2009-08-01T13:37:07  <Prod> strip the guide?
2009-08-01T13:37:09  <najzere> Yes.
2009-08-01T13:37:28  <Procyon> I think the reason we gave the author latititude,
2009-08-01T13:37:30  <najzere> Procyon: no.
2009-08-01T13:37:31  <Prod> what do other people think?
2009-08-01T13:37:40  <najzere> Most YouTube links are fine from what I've seen.
2009-08-01T13:37:41  <Procyon> was because he said he was going to come back and work on it more.
2009-08-01T13:37:52  <najzere> Yes, he's updated one page.
2009-08-01T13:38:01  <Procyon> So Dues Ex is the most egregious violation?
2009-08-01T13:38:11  <najzere> Even with full walkthroughs, the links only serve to put our competition directly next to our content.
2009-08-01T13:38:16  *** Melon247 has left #SW-Meeting
2009-08-01T13:38:24  <najzere> I believe so, but I haven't gone through all YouTube links.
2009-08-01T13:38:42  <Prod> how many pages are like that?
2009-08-01T13:38:47  <Prod> in Deus ex
2009-08-01T13:38:48  <najzere> In that guide?
2009-08-01T13:38:49  <Prod> approx
2009-08-01T13:38:57  <najzere> Umm five or so, I think.
2009-08-01T13:39:01  <Prod> no other content
2009-08-01T13:39:13  <Prod> ?
2009-08-01T13:39:27  <najzere> My compromise on that, by the way, was for the author to put a playlist together on YouTube and use one link in an "External links" section.
2009-08-01T13:39:30  <Prod> i would say move the links to a talk page
2009-08-01T13:39:41  <Prod> keep the first video on it's page
2009-08-01T13:39:46  <Prod> and delete any empty pages beyond that
2009-08-01T13:40:14  <najzere> And what about a guideline for the future.
2009-08-01T13:40:20  <najzere> What content belongs in YouTube links?
2009-08-01T13:40:32  <najzere> Or always put YouTube walkthroughs in talk pages.
2009-08-01T13:40:33  <najzere> ?
2009-08-01T13:40:53  <Prod> i don't think it's worth setting up a whole policy for one guide
2009-08-01T13:41:04  <Procyon> Naj: I agree with Prod on that.
2009-08-01T13:41:04  <najzere> What will it hurt?
2009-08-01T13:41:07  <Prod> but you're welcome to start it if you want
2009-08-01T13:41:15  <najzere> I will.
2009-08-01T13:41:18  <Procyon> I also agree with that too.
2009-08-01T13:41:26  <najzere> It helps me, since I hav to clean this shit up.
2009-08-01T13:41:31  <Procyon> lol
2009-08-01T13:41:35  <najzere> It's very nice to have something to point to.
2009-08-01T13:41:50  <Procyon> Alright, well,
2009-08-01T13:42:01  <Procyon> Sigma7, did you have any other issues that you wanted to address?
2009-08-01T13:42:20  <Procyon> (Not sure if anyone else is tuned in but the 3 of us...)
2009-08-01T13:42:29  <najzere> Heh.
2009-08-01T13:42:34  <najzere> What was Melon's question?
2009-08-01T13:42:39  <najzere> Something bout Featured guides?
2009-08-01T13:42:46  <Prod> melon wanted to know why we were so stringent about featured guides
2009-08-01T13:42:53  <Procyon> Why are featured guide requirements so strict
2009-08-01T13:42:59  <Prod> should we relax our policy?
2009-08-01T13:43:03  <najzere> I believe it's so we dont' have crappy guides on the front page.
2009-08-01T13:43:05  <Prod> only letting a few through
2009-08-01T13:43:20  <najzere> I'm against relaxing them.
2009-08-01T13:43:30  <Procyon> What would you relax?
2009-08-01T13:43:36  <Sigma7> It's meant to show that the guide is effectivly perfect, where you can not only complete the game, but also speed-run it or otherwise obtain 100%.
2009-08-01T13:43:57  <najzere> Also perfect from a style and copyedit standpoint I think.
2009-08-01T13:44:06  <najzere> They're supposed to be model articles.
2009-08-01T13:44:15  <Rocky> maybe give the guide writers more time to fix the mistakes, but not relax the policy.
2009-08-01T13:44:16  <Procyon> Melon thinks of it like a 360 achievment.
2009-08-01T13:44:22  <najzere> heh
2009-08-01T13:44:28  <Procyon> We could come up with an alternate measure...
2009-08-01T13:44:34  <Procyon> Not featured, but better than complete.
2009-08-01T13:44:40  <Rocky> achievements wouldn't be a bad idea...
2009-08-01T13:44:42  <Procyon> Like a SW seal of approval.
2009-08-01T13:44:54  <najzere> How about allowing level five guides, but not all are featured?
2009-08-01T13:44:58  <Prod> well
2009-08-01T13:45:09  <Prod> how about spotlights :)
2009-08-01T13:45:21  <Procyon> Remember kids, only buy Nintendo Entertainment System cartridges if the box has the Nintendo Seal of Approval on it.
2009-08-01T13:45:21  <najzere> That's good too.
2009-08-01T13:45:27  <najzere> Heh.
2009-08-01T13:45:34  <najzere> Would spotlights be like promising guides was?
2009-08-01T13:46:02  <Procyon> Presumably.
2009-08-01T13:46:18  <najzere> Was that on a time limit?
2009-08-01T13:46:26  <najzere> I assume you can't have the spotlight forever.
2009-08-01T13:46:34  <Prod> one month
2009-08-01T13:46:35  <Skizzerz> ok, let's continue this discussion on the forums :)
2009-08-01T13:46:42  <najzere> Heh.
2009-08-01T13:46:46  <Procyon> Supposed to be monthly.
2009-08-01T13:47:04  <najzere> Real quick...
2009-08-01T13:47:21  <najzere> To clarify, with new MediaWiki we ARE getting the ability to embed video?
2009-08-01T13:47:30  <Prod> not yet
2009-08-01T13:47:41  <Skizzerz> well, we can already if we install an extension
2009-08-01T13:47:47  <najzere> OIC
2009-08-01T13:47:53  <Prod> we're going to go to 1.15.1 soon
2009-08-01T13:47:59  <Prod> the video stuff comes with 1.16
2009-08-01T13:48:12  <najzere> I guess we'll burn that bridge when we get to it then.
2009-08-01T13:48:18  <Skizzerz> but version 1.16 has some code that allows firefogg users to automatically convert from proprietary video formats into the open-source ogg format on the upload page
2009-08-01T13:48:31  <najzere> Cool?
2009-08-01T13:49:03  <Skizzerz> yes
2009-08-01T13:49:10  <Procyon> :)
2009-08-01T13:49:11  <najzere> Okay, moving on...about our partners.
2009-08-01T13:49:26  <najzere> I've been on Bulbapedia quite a bit checking out edits to pokemon guides.
2009-08-01T13:49:32  <najzere> I have yet to see a link back to us.
2009-08-01T13:49:36  <najzere> What are they doing for us?
2009-08-01T13:49:40  <Skizzerz> they link back
2009-08-01T13:49:42  <Skizzerz> don't worry about it
2009-08-01T13:49:44  <Prod> we have links in infoboxes
2009-08-01T13:49:46  <Prod> that's all
2009-08-01T13:49:49  <Prod> on game specific pages
2009-08-01T13:49:55  <najzere> Ah, okay cool.
2009-08-01T13:49:59  <najzere> Just wondering.
2009-08-01T13:50:16  <Rocky> they link back on the main game pages
2009-08-01T13:50:19  <Skizzerz> http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Red_and_Blue
2009-08-01T13:50:34  <najzere> Oh, very nice.
2009-08-01T13:50:41  <Procyon> Yeah
2009-08-01T13:50:45  <Procyon> They've been very cool about that.
2009-08-01T13:50:56  <Procyon> It really benefits us more than it benefits them.
2009-08-01T13:50:58  <najzere> I've been editing on finalfantasy.wikia.com
2009-08-01T13:51:06  <najzere> Is that a good one to pursue?
2009-08-01T13:51:08  <Procyon> Cuz no one wanted to reproduce all that work.
2009-08-01T13:51:11  <najzere> They have 10,000+ articles.
2009-08-01T13:51:18  <Procyon> Naj: Sure, I think so.
2009-08-01T13:51:22  <najzere> Okay.
2009-08-01T13:51:43  <najzere> They have walkthroughs, so I don't know how open they'd be. But I'll check it out.
2009-08-01T13:52:10  <najzere> I was hoping there would be more admin here.
2009-08-01T13:52:32  <najzere> Because I wanted to ask that we provide more solidarity for each other when dealing with users.
2009-08-01T13:52:47  <Procyon> How so?
2009-08-01T13:52:52  <najzere> Specifically, let's not argue with each other in the middle of user-admin conversations.
2009-08-01T13:52:58  <Procyon> That is a good point.
2009-08-01T13:53:07  <Procyon> Am I correct in assuming you mean NMH?
2009-08-01T13:53:10  <najzere> If someone has a problem, I'd prefer bringing it as a separate topic on the talk page.
2009-08-01T13:53:27  <najzere> Of course that is the specific instance, but this goes for everyone I would hope.
2009-08-01T13:53:49  <najzere> It's really hard enough for me to try and dialog with users and give them their voice without admin dissenters.
2009-08-01T13:53:57  <najzere> Not that I'm opposed to other viewpoints...
2009-08-01T13:54:02  <najzere> But it looks like amateur hour.
2009-08-01T13:54:08  <najzere> Like we don't have our shit together.
2009-08-01T13:54:31  <Procyon> I understand.
2009-08-01T13:54:36  <Procyon> Next time it occurs,
2009-08-01T13:54:43  <Procyon> please bring it to my attention if it's not already,
2009-08-01T13:54:48  <Procyon> and we'll try to address it.
2009-08-01T13:55:04  <najzere> Okay, although I'm trying to keep this low profile.
2009-08-01T13:55:20  <najzere> I mean there's no sense in bickering between ourselves.
2009-08-01T13:55:26  <Procyon> You can alert me offline.
2009-08-01T13:55:31  <Procyon> I mean, off SW
2009-08-01T13:55:40  <Procyon> Any other topics to address?
2009-08-01T13:55:54  <Procyon> Anyone?
2009-08-01T13:55:56  <najzere> I have plenty but we seem to be losing steam.
2009-08-01T13:56:01  <Procyon> Yeah, it's true.
2009-08-01T13:56:02  <najzere> Until next time.
2009-08-01T13:56:08  <Prod> add them to the agenda :)
2009-08-01T13:56:13  <najzere> Where?
2009-08-01T13:56:22  <Procyon> Naj, I really do encourage you to try raising some issues on the forum.
2009-08-01T13:56:24  <Prod> whenever the next meeting invite is put up
2009-08-01T13:56:30  <najzere> Ah.
2009-08-01T13:56:32  <Prod> make a post with anything you want added
2009-08-01T13:56:33  <Procyon> The agenda is listed in the forum.
2009-08-01T13:56:36  <najzere> Procyon: that ain't gonna happen.
2009-08-01T13:56:45  <najzere> Forums are a big waste of my time.
2009-08-01T13:56:54  <Procyon> Naj: You'd be surprised, we actually do get a bit accomplished on there between meetings.
2009-08-01T13:57:03  <Skizzerz> I'm sorry you feel that way, but that is THE source of information exchange
2009-08-01T13:57:08  <najzere> I guess things have changed in the couple months since my last visit.
2009-08-01T13:57:09  <Procyon> imho
2009-08-01T13:57:22  <najzere> The source of info, but not decisions.
2009-08-01T13:57:34  <Skizzerz> that too
2009-08-01T13:57:43  <Procyon> You may not get precisely the reaction you had hoped for, but you do get some feedback
2009-08-01T13:57:54  <najzere> Yes, I get run around arguments.
2009-08-01T13:58:01  <najzere> Let me know when you settle scope issues on the forum.
2009-08-01T13:58:11  <Procyon> :(
2009-08-01T13:58:11  <najzere> I'd like to start enforcing them.
2009-08-01T13:58:24  <Skizzerz> anyway, let's stop this now
2009-08-01T13:58:28  <Procyon> OK
2009-08-01T13:58:32  <najzere> Happily. :D
2009-08-01T13:58:36  <Procyon> Thanks everybody.
2009-08-01T13:58:40  <najzere> Thank YOU
2009-08-01T13:58:47  <Skizzerz> log will be up shortly
2009-08-01T13:58:48  <Procyon> I hope to have much better news by next month's meeting.
2009-08-01T13:59:00  <Procyon> Talk to you all soon.