Dec 01 13:19:37 <~Prod>    ////////////////////MEETING BEGINS HERE//////////////
Dec 01 13:19:43 <Procyon>    You know, where you officially open (and close it)... there we go.
Dec 01 13:19:43 <Procyon>    OK.
Dec 01 13:19:53 <Procyon>    No moderation today, this will be light and casual.
Dec 01 13:20:06 <Procyon>    There's only one thing officially on the agenda, but we can open it to any topic.
Dec 01 13:20:30 <Procyon>    I wanted to give everyone an accurate measure of where we stand with the ads, and where we want to be.
Dec 01 13:20:45 <Procyon>    Our goal, in non-financial terms,
Dec 01 13:20:52 <Procyon>    is to own our own server.
Dec 01 13:21:07 <Procyon>    currently, we lease the one we use, and it's not particularly high-powered.
Dec 01 13:21:14 <ness>    Indeed.
Dec 01 13:21:20 <Procyon>    I have spoken with Matt about this several times,
Dec 01 13:21:34 <Procyon>    and to replace the leased server with one that would be sufficient,
Dec 01 13:21:38 <Procyon>    will cost in the ball park of $1500.
Dec 01 13:21:44 <Procyon>    That's just for the single replacement.
Dec 01 13:21:56 <Procyon>    Ultimately, we would prefer to have two servers.
Dec 01 13:22:24 <Procyon>    Our server expert ness would be able to set up some load balancing between the two, and increase our performance substantially.
Dec 01 13:22:31 <Procyon>    Unfortunately, we have to get there.
Dec 01 13:22:38 <ness>    mhm
Dec 01 13:23:05 <Procyon>    I know there's been some concern over the presense of the ads, from a performance perspective, and from a impression perspective.
Dec 01 13:23:35 <Procyon>    One thing that would substantially help us move beyond the presense of the ads is if we had a good method of fundraising.
Dec 01 13:23:52 <Procyon>    ness, I know that this is very impromptu, but would you like to address this issue in any way?
Dec 01 13:24:11 <Procyon>    If you're not prepared at this time, that's OK.
Dec 01 13:24:24 <ness>    Mm, what exactly would you like to know?
Dec 01 13:24:42 <Procyon>    Well, I know that out of everyone, you're probably the one person who has given fundraising a fair amount of thought.
Dec 01 13:25:10 <Procyon>    Would you like to share anything, such as time tables, or methods that you're considering?
Dec 01 13:25:19 <Procyon>    Again, I don't mean to put you on the spot.
Dec 01 13:25:51 <Procyon>    And this topic is open to anyone to respond.
Dec 01 13:26:06 <ness>    The rough idea was to run a $5,000 fundraiser during the summer break as a means to raise money for the purchasing of the server, surely.
Dec 01 13:26:28 <Skizzerz>    Do you know how much we already have?
Dec 01 13:26:35 <ness>    Though there are two problems. The one most important I think is that in order to run the fundraiser efficiently, we'd need good servers in the first place.
Dec 01 13:26:56 <ness>    Well, I do have access to how much SW has been making as of late
Dec 01 13:26:59 <Procyon>    I was hoping to have some figures from echelon about how much the ads are bringing in, but unfortunately, I don't./
Dec 01 13:27:03 <Procyon>    Oh, cool.
Dec 01 13:27:07 <ness>    Mhm
Dec 01 13:27:12 <ness>    I can get them, if you'd like.
Dec 01 13:27:44 <Skizzerz>    that would be good, just to see how we've been doing and come up with ways to increase the revenue
Dec 01 13:28:09 <~Prod>    if you have november's montly number, that would be good
Dec 01 13:28:31 <ness>    Alright
Dec 01 13:28:33 <Procyon>    Also, for anyone seeing this,
Dec 01 13:28:35 <ness>    Give me a sec,
Dec 01 13:28:46 <Procyon>    please consider the fact that our rental comes out of that figure,
Dec 01 13:28:59 <Procyon>    so it's not like we're stockpiling a large amount, if anything at all.
Dec 01 13:29:12 <ness>    For the month of november,
Dec 01 13:29:20 <ness>    SW made $142.33
Dec 01 13:29:36 <ness>    those are confirmed figures -- the ad publishers have agreed to send that precise amount to echelon.
Dec 01 13:29:59 <Procyon>    That's very good, at least we made a little bit of money, although only less than $50.
Dec 01 13:30:03 <~Prod>    is that widgetbucks or google?
Dec 01 13:30:08 <ness>    Widgetbucks
Dec 01 13:30:16 <ness>    Extra money may be filling the gap with google.
Dec 01 13:30:22 <ness>    I'm not able to get figures for google.
Dec 01 13:30:32 <Skizzerz>    yes, it violates their terms, IIRC
Dec 01 13:30:38 <Procyon>    I see.
Dec 01 13:30:44 <ness>    Hm?
Dec 01 13:30:49 <~Prod>    do you have an approx #?
Dec 01 13:30:49 <Garrett>    so how much is subtracted for bandwidth/lease costs?
Dec 01 13:30:59 <Procyon>    Approx. $100
Dec 01 13:31:06 <Procyon>    I don't know the exact figure.
Dec 01 13:31:09 <ness>    $120 I'd say
Dec 01 13:31:21 <ness>    I believe we have a shared server at DreamHost that SW is paying for
Dec 01 13:31:22 <Garrett>    that's... not good. :P
Dec 01 13:31:34 <Procyon>    No, not as a means to raise funds.
Dec 01 13:31:48 <ness>    That's to pay the server bill
Dec 01 13:31:50 <Procyon>    It's simply as a means to support the site, which echelon pays for out of his pocket.
Dec 01 13:32:07 <ness>    If anything, we should be in at least $100 net profit.
Dec 01 13:32:08 <Garrett>    [08:21:58]    <GoLdEnToWeReX>    Put this in the meeting
Dec 01 13:32:09 <Garrett>    [08:22:05]    <GoLdEnToWeReX>    Use Google Pay per view ads
Dec 01 13:32:10 <Garrett>    [08:22:08]    <GoLdEnToWeReX>    Rather than clicks
Dec 01 13:32:11 <Procyon>    So the general gist of this is that we need a more proactive method, such as the one ness spoke up.
Dec 01 13:32:12 <ness>    given that adsense preformed well
Dec 01 13:32:47 <ness>    Right... but the other problem I mentioned is staggering...
Dec 01 13:32:50 <ness>    er
Dec 01 13:32:52 <ness>    didn't mention
Dec 01 13:33:10 <Procyon>    meaning?
Dec 01 13:33:31 <ness>    Unsure am I that the fundraiser can go to completion while having it done the best it could.
Dec 01 13:34:02 <Procyon>    I think in other words,
Dec 01 13:34:20 <Procyon>    the fundraiser would have to run less effiently than it code by design?
Dec 01 13:34:23 <ness>    We employed ads and got a response to it... it's engraved in our history, so to speak. Donations aren't going to come in with the greatest of amounts should they know that we employed gargantuan ads.
Dec 01 13:34:24 <Procyon>    could...
Dec 01 13:34:44 <ness>    they == donators
Dec 01 13:35:00 <Procyon>    Ness, allow me to conduct a quick survey if I may.
Dec 01 13:35:08 <ness>    Sure.
Dec 01 13:35:35 <Procyon>    Who here, besides ness, feels that the pressense of advertisements deters potential donators?  I.e. would we have more donations if we removed the ads?
Dec 01 13:36:06 <IsaacGS>    I'm not sure if the difference would make up for lost ad revenue...
Dec 01 13:36:38 <Procyon>    Personally, I am inclined to agree with Isaacs prediction.
Dec 01 13:36:58 <Rocky>    yeh...
Dec 01 13:37:02 <Procyon>    In other words, donations with ads < donations without ads,
Dec 01 13:37:10 <Procyon>    BUT, donation without ads < donations + ads.
Dec 01 13:37:44 <ness>    I find that surveying our own people is a futile proceeding. Such a survey concluded in the past that the visitors wouldn't mind the ads, when indeed a vocal individual in charge of a medium spoke about it.
Dec 01 13:38:01 <Procyon>    And since, as ness as illustrated, we're talking about our operational budget alone, not even considering funds for future allocations.
Dec 01 13:38:30 <Procyon>    ness: understood.
Dec 01 13:38:49 <~Prod>    according to the numbers above, we make about $300 a month (optimiztically) correct?
Dec 01 13:39:02 <Procyon>    I think ultimately that we all agree it will be a good time when we can remove, or at least reduce the ads.
Dec 01 13:39:33 <ness>    Prod: Maybe.
Dec 01 13:39:39 <Procyon>    Prod: I have a feeling that that may be a little high.
Dec 01 13:39:45 <ness>    Nick is the only one who has access to the SW Google figures
Dec 01 13:39:49 <~Prod>    kk
Dec 01 13:39:49 <ness>    other than echelon
Dec 01 13:39:57 <~Prod>    well, if we assume 250
Dec 01 13:40:05 <~Prod>    and we remove the widgetbucks
Dec 01 13:40:17 <~Prod>    would we be able to make up $150 in donations
Dec 01 13:40:42 <~Prod>    i would think not
Dec 01 13:40:43 <Procyon>    And remember that once we're down to our own server, the rental fee reduces substantially to just the rack space if I understand correctly.
Dec 01 13:40:50 <ness>    Right
Dec 01 13:41:03 <ness>    I believe that's somewhere in the $10 per month area, though I may be mistaken
Dec 01 13:41:07 <ness>    Nonetheless cheaper.
Dec 01 13:41:32 <Procyon>    ness, do they not take bandwidth into account?  i.e. is it unlimited?
Dec 01 13:42:40 <ness>    It is.
Dec 01 13:42:44 <Procyon>    Nice, OK...
Dec 01 13:42:54 <ness>    If there is a limit
Dec 01 13:42:57 <Procyon>    That is important condsidering how much we want to grow.
Dec 01 13:42:57 <ness>    it's something like 2TB
Dec 01 13:43:04 <Procyon>    Wow.
Dec 01 13:43:15 <ness>    Mhm
Dec 01 13:43:24 <Procyon>    Prod, do you have any idea what our monthly bandwidth usage is lately?
Dec 01 13:43:38 <~Prod>    ness would be the one to ask
Dec 01 13:43:41 <Procyon>    (This is purely my curiosity)
Dec 01 13:43:56 *    Notmyhandle has joined #SW-Meeting
Dec 01 13:44:02 <~Prod>    but my understanding is that its around 20 gigs or so
Dec 01 13:44:03 <Procyon>    Welcome, NMH
Dec 01 13:44:03 <ness>    Well
Dec 01 13:44:06 <~Prod>    excluding images
Dec 01 13:44:10 <ness>    I can't give you exact figures
Dec 01 13:44:16 <ness>    but I'd say 1 G text
Dec 01 13:44:20 <ness>    50 GB images and media
Dec 01 13:44:31 <Procyon>    Interesting.
Dec 01 13:44:37 <~Prod>    although a bit dated
Dec 01 13:44:38 <~Prod>    http://strategywiki.org/wiki/StrategyWiki:Statistics#Recent_traffic_statistics
Dec 01 13:44:45 <Procyon>    Prod, do we have any sort of cleanup tast to reduce image sizes?
Dec 01 13:44:54 <Notmyhandle>    none listed
Dec 01 13:45:11 <Procyon>    Does anyone agree that it might be a good idea?
Dec 01 13:45:20 <~Prod>    i don't think we need to worry about it yet
Dec 01 13:45:20 <ness>    Those bandwidth figures don't take into account our images
Dec 01 13:45:26 <Notmyhandle>    well of course it is
Dec 01 13:45:28 <ness>    Only the month of January did
Dec 01 13:45:29 <Procyon>    To take the largest size images, make sure that they are properly compress/resized if necessary?
Dec 01 13:45:37 <ness>    oh my
Dec 01 13:45:38 <Notmyhandle>    the easiest method is to simply convert to png
Dec 01 13:45:46 <ness>    make that 80 GB then
Dec 01 13:45:47 <Notmyhandle>    'cuz we have a lot of huge jpg's
Dec 01 13:45:52 <Procyon>    NMH: No, photo-quality images should be jpg
Dec 01 13:46:00 <Notmyhandle>    why?
Dec 01 13:46:01 <ness>    Agreed.
Dec 01 13:46:11 <~Prod>    jpg is smaller than png for photo quality images
Dec 01 13:46:15 <ness>    jpg is lossful, but still does a good job with photo-quality images.
Dec 01 13:46:23 <Notmyhandle>    hm.  Never seen that...
Dec 01 13:46:31 <Procyon>    NMH: png is useful because of RLE, so if you have numbers of pixels that are identical colors in long series, then png is better.
Dec 01 13:46:42 <ness>    Right.
Dec 01 13:46:50 <Procyon>    but photo quality images change color typically from pixel to pixel, so png gains nothing.
Dec 01 13:46:50 <Notmyhandle>    i understand
Dec 01 13:46:54 <ness>    Simple abstractions benefit more from PNG than JPG
Dec 01 13:46:58 <~Prod>    http://strategywiki.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Imagelist&sort=img_size&limit=50&desc=1
Dec 01 13:47:17 <Rocky>    what's the page
Dec 01 13:47:19 <Procyon>    screenshots of 80s and some 90s games are better for png, as are sprites.
Dec 01 13:47:30 <Procyon>    The worst offenders
Dec 01 13:47:31 <Rocky>    can't read it on the java client and lnks don't work 4 me
Dec 01 13:47:50 <Procyon>    Rocky, they are the biggest pictures.
Dec 01 13:47:57 <Rocky>    oh...
Dec 01 13:48:00 <Rocky>    i know
Dec 01 13:48:01 <~Prod>    just check Special:Imagelist
Dec 01 13:48:07 <~Prod>    and sort by size
Dec 01 13:48:10 <Procyon>    Some may not be fixable.  Some may be.
Dec 01 13:48:24 <Procyon>    lol @ DrBob ^_^
Dec 01 13:48:29 <Procyon>    He's the worst offender by far!
Dec 01 13:48:30 <Rocky>    i did one of the jpgs once and db said to revert it
Dec 01 13:48:43 <Skizzerz>    those are probably the panoramic screenshots
Dec 01 13:48:48 <Rocky>    no
Dec 01 13:48:53 <Rocky>    those are .mov
Dec 01 13:48:57 <Rocky>    i think...
Dec 01 13:48:57 <Skizzerz>    or hi-res maps
Dec 01 13:48:59 <Procyon>    no...
Dec 01 13:49:00 <Procyon>    png
Dec 01 13:49:04 <Rocky>    just screenshots
Dec 01 13:49:08 <Procyon>    of very busy screens.
Dec 01 13:49:23 <Procyon>    So... it's not an issue that we have to worry about today,
Dec 01 13:49:29 <DrBob>    Rocky: I said to revert it because it would be much more efficient to just run a compression script on the media server
Dec 01 13:49:38 <~Prod>    we don't have to worry about bandwidth issues for a while
Dec 01 13:49:41 <~Prod>    so for now we can continue
Dec 01 13:49:46 <Procyon>    DrBob: So that's an option?
Dec 01 13:49:54 <~Prod>    actually, I dunno if it is
Dec 01 13:49:54 <DrBob>    It may be
Dec 01 13:50:01 <Procyon>    OK, good to know.
Dec 01 13:50:04 <~Prod>    since the stored location is based on the hash of the files
Dec 01 13:50:11 <~Prod>    and if we coompress them, it changes the hash
Dec 01 13:50:16 <~Prod>    might mess some things up
Dec 01 13:50:19 <Notmyhandle>    are we ever gonna get a database backup we can each have?
Dec 01 13:50:21 <DrBob>    oh
Dec 01 13:50:27 <~Prod>    then again
Dec 01 13:50:28 <DrBob>    That's a good point
Dec 01 13:50:31 <~Prod>    it could just be based on filename
Dec 01 13:50:33 <Procyon>    NMH: That's an execellent point.
Dec 01 13:50:45 <Notmyhandle>    we should just make a torrent
Dec 01 13:50:49 <Procyon>    I will be sure to ask that of echelon the next time I see him.
Dec 01 13:50:50 <Notmyhandle>    for easy sharing
Dec 01 13:50:57 <Procyon>    NMH: Would have to be private...
Dec 01 13:51:00 <~Prod>    the one note about that
Dec 01 13:51:01 <DrBob>    +1 NMH
Dec 01 13:51:03 <Notmyhandle>    fine fine
Dec 01 13:51:04 <Procyon>    but, also a good idea.
Dec 01 13:51:10 <~Prod>    that would contain all the user information
Dec 01 13:51:14 <Notmyhandle>    o
Dec 01 13:51:18 <~Prod>    which should NOT be distributed....
Dec 01 13:51:25 <Rocky>    can't u remove the user table
Dec 01 13:51:36 <Procyon>    Pretty sure you could...
Dec 01 13:51:39 <ness>    Oh, speaking of backup
Dec 01 13:51:40 <~Prod>    probably
Dec 01 13:51:45 <~Prod>    we'll have to figure that out first though
Dec 01 13:52:03 <Skizzerz>    you can't get passwords straight off the user table, they're hashed and salted, but it would certainly progress a hacking attempt
Dec 01 13:52:08 <ness>    Nick's server is down at the moment, but when it's back, I'll talk to him about using his megabit connection to backup SW
Dec 01 13:52:30 <Procyon>    That would be great.
Dec 01 13:52:50 <Procyon>    We're beyond the point of "catastrophic loss"
Dec 01 13:52:52 <Skizzerz>    I have a server sitting in my basement too, but it's probably slow as heck and I don't even know if it works
Dec 01 13:53:10 <Rocky>    xD
Dec 01 13:53:13 <Procyon>    lol... so we definitely won't be using Skiz's server.
Dec 01 13:53:27 <Garrett>    removing the user table is simple
Dec 01 13:53:29 <Rocky>    can't we export the most important guides?
Dec 01 13:53:35 <DrBob>    My server has 50GiB of bandwidth per month available, although I think 2GiB is used by my site
Dec 01 13:53:40 <Skizzerz>    lemme check the server info... just for the log's sake
Dec 01 13:53:53 <Garrett>    Rocky: using 1.11's Special:Export that's kinda possible.
Dec 01 13:53:54 <~Prod>    but won't it render the dump useless?
Dec 01 13:53:57 <Garrett>    images would have to be separate.
Dec 01 13:54:03 <Procyon>    Rocky: You COULD, but I wouldn't want the back up procedure to be reliant on people voluntarily exporting guides.
Dec 01 13:54:08 <Rocky>    i have loads of them backed up
Dec 01 13:54:11 <Garrett>    <_<
Dec 01 13:54:14 <DrBob>    Why?
Dec 01 13:54:14 <Rocky>    xD
Dec 01 13:54:16 <Procyon>    Rocky: There are too many other things like templates and such.
Dec 01 13:54:21 <Rocky>    when i rename them
Dec 01 13:54:28 <Rocky>    incase i need to recover them
Dec 01 13:54:35 <Procyon>    DrBob: Why to me or to Rocky?
Dec 01 13:54:39 <DrBob>    Rocky
Dec 01 13:54:42 <Procyon>    ok
Dec 01 13:54:52 <Skizzerz>    Rocky: in 1.11 you can undelete images
Dec 01 13:55:02 <Notmyhandle>    Rocky: I am the same way.  My "My Documents Folder" contains an index with every game on SW I have an image for.
Dec 01 13:55:05 <Rocky>    in WP u could do it b4 then somehow
Dec 01 13:55:16 <Procyon>    The only other issue that I was prepared to discuss today is a very small update on the DoubleJump deal.
Dec 01 13:55:18 <Skizzerz>    it's disabled by default before that though
Dec 01 13:55:19 <Rocky>    from what i read
Dec 01 13:55:28 <Notmyhandle>    Oh yeah...
Dec 01 13:55:31 <Notmyhandle>    Forgot about DJ
Dec 01 13:55:37 <ness>    DJ?
Dec 01 13:55:40 <Rocky>    wy not enable it
Dec 01 13:55:44 <~Prod>    DoubleJump
Dec 01 13:55:44 <Rocky>    double jump
Dec 01 13:55:51 <Notmyhandle>    DoubleJump publishing/books or whatever
Dec 01 13:55:54 <Procyon>    Now that the server strain issues are (somewhat) behind us (although not completely), I worked with Teddy this week to mock-up a presentation of our main page with the DoubleJump logo appended to it.
Dec 01 13:56:06 <ness>    :/
Dec 01 13:56:09 <Procyon>    (There will be another topic after this one)
Dec 01 13:56:36 <Procyon>    Teddy, very brilliantly, suggested a location for their logo in a place that neither SW or DJ had thought of.
Dec 01 13:56:48 <Garrett>    ness: for the backstory, see http://strategywiki.org/wiki/User_talk:Procyon/DoubleJump
Dec 01 13:57:01 <ness>    Thanks Garrett.
Dec 01 13:57:01 <Procyon>    He proposes that we put it to the left of the search bar, directly beneath your personal user page button.
Dec 01 13:57:26 <Procyon>    I'm sorry ness, I thought you were up to speed on that one.  I apologize/
Dec 01 13:57:31 <Notmyhandle>    yeah I talked about that but someone said it wouldn't fit or something
Dec 01 13:57:33 <Garrett>    got pics of this proposal?
Dec 01 13:57:42 <ness>    +1 Garrett's question
Dec 01 13:57:52 <Procyon>    I do, I don't have any XDCC set up, but I can send individually.
Dec 01 13:57:54 <Procyon>    Who wants?
Dec 01 13:58:00 <ness>    I do.
Dec 01 13:58:02 <~Prod>    upload it
Dec 01 13:58:06 *    Garrett does too. :P
Dec 01 13:58:10 <DrBob>    Me please
Dec 01 13:58:14 <Garrett>    or yeah, just slam it on Tinypic. :P
Dec 01 13:58:33 <Procyon>    dcc sendingg
Dec 01 13:58:41 <Notmyhandle>    imageshack
Dec 01 13:58:42 <Notmyhandle>    whatever
Dec 01 13:58:57 <~Prod>    actually we may want to keep it on the "down low" until it's actually implemented
Dec 01 13:59:04 <Garrett>    <_<
Dec 01 13:59:41 <Rocky>    stick the link in #strategywiki?
Dec 01 14:00:03 <Procyon>    Oh, that could work, why didn't I think of that...
Dec 01 14:00:10 <Procyon>    duh...
Dec 01 14:00:20 <Procyon>    lemme ftp it to my site
Dec 01 14:01:10 <ness>    Mk
Dec 01 14:01:13 <ness>    That would be better
Dec 01 14:01:31 <Procyon>    http://home.comcast.net/~plotor/swdj.jpg
Dec 01 14:01:34 <ness>    The image somehow disappeared when I tried to view it :/
Dec 01 14:01:37 <Procyon>    There you go.
Dec 01 14:02:19 <ness>    So a vote has already been held on this?
Dec 01 14:02:20 <Procyon>    At this point, I'm inclined to say that if you disagree with its location, talk with Teddy, because I want to support him as much as I can since he will be the one implementing the changes.
Dec 01 14:02:21 <~Prod>    I was actually thinking we could put something else there (which I'll bring up later)
Dec 01 14:02:26 <Notmyhandle>    perfect fit
Dec 01 14:02:27 <ness>    or
Dec 01 14:02:30 <ness>    some sort of consensus?
Dec 01 14:02:31 <Procyon>    Hmm...
Dec 01 14:02:35 <Procyon>    Well,
Dec 01 14:02:41 <Notmyhandle>    Prod's got a hidden agenda!
Dec 01 14:02:51 <~Prod>    i've got many :P
Dec 01 14:02:53 <Procyon>    I would only want to conduct said consensus if Teddy were present.
Dec 01 14:03:04 <ness>    er
Dec 01 14:03:05 <ness>    brb
Dec 01 14:03:09 <Procyon>    Unfortunately, he's logged on to the IRC, but not here.
Dec 01 14:03:45 <Procyon>    This would be a very worthwhile discussion.
Dec 01 14:03:56 <Garrett>    nothing explains why the logo is there, though
Dec 01 14:04:19 <Procyon>    Unfortunately, I have sent this mock-up to Tim on Wed. night, just as a proposal, and I have not heard back from him yet.
Dec 01 14:04:23 <Skizzerz>    I still think that perhaps a better logo could be used
Dec 01 14:04:33 <Procyon>    Normally he's rather quick to respond.
Dec 01 14:05:08 <Procyon>    (waiting on ness)
Dec 01 14:05:17 <Procyon>    After this topic, DrBob has the floor, then Prod.
Dec 01 14:05:35 <DrBob>    (What do I have the floor for?)
Dec 01 14:06:21 <Procyon>    OK, Prod has the floor next :)
Dec 01 14:06:32 <~Prod>    naw, DrBob just has amnesia :)
Dec 01 14:06:36 <Procyon>    lol!
Dec 01 14:06:37 <DrBob>    :S
Dec 01 14:06:43 <Procyon>    Figure it out between you two.
Dec 01 14:06:53 <Procyon>    Just waiting on ness.
Dec 01 14:06:59 <Procyon>    I don't think Teddy will respond.
Dec 01 14:07:02 <~Prod>    well, I'll bring up one of my points that relates to this
Dec 01 14:07:09 <Procyon>    go ahead
Dec 01 14:07:13 <~Prod>    I was actually thinking we could add a drop down System browser
Dec 01 14:07:18 <~Prod>    that would lead to the categories
Dec 01 14:08:16 <~Prod>    it would go right where that image is
Dec 01 14:08:31 <Skizzerz>    how would we implement said drop-down?
Dec 01 14:08:31 <~Prod>    or perhaps on the other side of the "search" button
Dec 01 14:08:53 <~Prod>    we can modify the bluecloud.php
Dec 01 14:08:58 <Skizzerz>    true
Dec 01 14:09:07 <~Prod>    afk
Dec 01 14:09:07 <Garrett>    it could be done via CSS, or ideally JS
Dec 01 14:09:28 <DrBob>    Garrett: Why use JS when you can use a form element??
Dec 01 14:09:33 <Procyon>    lol, the floor holder isn't supposed to go afk :)
Dec 01 14:09:43 <Notmyhandle>    less JS the better
Dec 01 14:09:45 <Garrett>    DrBob: oh right.
Dec 01 14:10:03 <Garrett>    ideally it would call upon a MediaWiki: page or something
Dec 01 14:10:09 <Garrett>    so we could change the list without modding the skin
Dec 01 14:11:12 <DrBob>    mmmm
Dec 01 14:11:24 <DrBob>    That's doable, I think
Dec 01 14:12:01 <Procyon>    Well, ness is still away, and Prod is away,
Dec 01 14:12:10 <Procyon>    DrBob, did you want to address your issue?
Dec 01 14:12:45 <DrBob>    I coulddo
Dec 01 14:12:47 <DrBob>    *could do
Dec 01 14:12:53 <Procyon>    please
Dec 01 14:13:14 <DrBob>    Basically, I just want to propose that over the next few months we go on a massive expansion spree, and try to merge in as many articles, pages and small (or dead) wikis as possible
Dec 01 14:13:34 <DrBob>    I believe this is a good way of expanding, and as long as we're courteous and sensible, it doesn't do any harm
Dec 01 14:13:58 <DrBob>    It'll mean that nice walkthroughs for games which would otherwise be deleted on Wikipedia, or neglected and die on Wikia will live on :)
Dec 01 14:14:12 <DrBob>    Some of you may have noticed http://strategywiki.org/wiki/StrategyWiki:Content_import
Dec 01 14:14:28 <DrBob>    It's the page I've set up for tracking all of this, out of the ashes of the old Wikibooks import lists
Dec 01 14:14:29 <Rocky>    strategywiki: what?
Dec 01 14:14:38 <Rocky>    i can't read it >.<
Dec 01 14:14:41 <Skizzerz>    StrategyWiki:Content import
Dec 01 14:14:45 <Rocky>    kk
Dec 01 14:14:45 <Rocky>    ty
Dec 01 14:15:05 <DrBob>    At the moment there isn't much there, but I hope we can expand it
Dec 01 14:15:05 *    Prod is back
Dec 01 14:15:15 <Procyon>    Geez Rocky, what are you using the IRC on, an Apple ][?
Dec 01 14:15:30 <DrBob>    Basically, my plan is mainly to go through the lists of gaming wikis on Wikia, and see which ones are small/dead, and then offer them a merger
Dec 01 14:15:31 <Skizzerz>    Procyon: no, the PJIRC isn't configured optimally atm
Dec 01 14:15:34 <Rocky>    no, the java 1 on firefox
Dec 01 14:15:39 <Procyon>    Ah
Dec 01 14:15:48 <Garrett>    Rocky: try clicking and dragging across it. It should open a "Text copy window" from which you can copy it.
Dec 01 14:15:50 <Skizzerz>    considering I gave Teddy a time limit of 10 minutes to get it working again...
Dec 01 14:15:52 <Procyon>    DrBob, I like your idea a lot.
Dec 01 14:16:02 *    Garrett was already doing that, sort of. :P
Dec 01 14:16:02 <Skizzerz>    he didn't have much time to fix stuff
Dec 01 14:16:06 <DrBob>    We could offer a partnership to the larger ones which are good enough --- Prod and I have already started talks with Supreme Commander wiki about a partnership and merger of strategy information
Dec 01 14:16:31 *    GoLdEnToWeReX has quit (Client exited)
Dec 01 14:16:31 <Procyon>    It raises another concern that I have, but I'll wait until this topic is concluded.
Dec 01 14:16:32 <DrBob>    Thoughts? Comments? :)
Dec 01 14:16:34 *    Prod has quit (Connection reset by peer)
Dec 01 14:16:38 <Procyon>    o_O
Dec 01 14:16:43 *    Prod has joined #SW-Meeting
Dec 01 14:16:45 <DrBob>    Am I that boring?
Dec 01 14:16:47 <DrBob>    :(
Dec 01 14:16:49 <Procyon>    re Prod
Dec 01 14:16:49 <IsaacGS>    lol
Dec 01 14:16:52 <Skizzerz>    lol
Dec 01 14:16:56 *    ChanServ sets mode +q #SW-Meeting Prod
Dec 01 14:16:56 *    ChanServ gives channel operator status to Prod
Dec 01 14:17:13 <Procyon>    DrBob: I like the idea.
Dec 01 14:17:15 <Rocky>    lol @ prod
Dec 01 14:17:27 <Notmyhandle>    one thing i hate about SW is that it can't compete with compendium wikis like WoWWiki
Dec 01 14:17:34 <Procyon>    I don't have any other comments that relate directly.
Dec 01 14:17:46 <DrBob>    Compendium wikis?
Dec 01 14:17:46 <Procyon>    NMH: Nor should it really...
Dec 01 14:17:57 <Procyon>    Wikis that are like 100s of pages about one game.
Dec 01 14:18:19 <Procyon>    Like we won't over outdo FFXIcyclopedia
Dec 01 14:18:26 <Procyon>    Oh!
Dec 01 14:18:29 <Rocky>    or bulbapedia
Dec 01 14:18:35 <Procyon>    You know what we SHOULD do DrBob?
Dec 01 14:18:37 <Rocky>    apart from the walkthroughs
Dec 01 14:18:38 <Notmyhandle>    one thing we can do is simply provide all the tables necessary for things
Dec 01 14:18:39 <DrBob>    Yeah, and half of the information they have, we don't want, so we form partnerships with them :)
Dec 01 14:18:48 <Procyon>    We need to have some way to let people know that they can bring their wikis to SW!
Dec 01 14:18:57 <Procyon>    We don't want to keep losing them to Wikia!
Dec 01 14:18:59 <DrBob>    Procyon: mmm?
Dec 01 14:19:02 <~Prod>    well
Dec 01 14:19:08 <Skizzerz>    Procyon: too late for some of them...
Dec 01 14:19:13 <~Prod>    we've got quite a bit of exposure on WP
Dec 01 14:19:20 <Procyon>    If we had known in advance, we could have offerred them ffxi.strategywiki.org
Dec 01 14:19:22 <~Prod>    we're all over the transwiki pages and things like that
Dec 01 14:19:33 <DrBob>    Same with wikibooks
Dec 01 14:19:36 <~Prod>    to note, ffxi was paid to join wikia
Dec 01 14:19:37 <Procyon>    Right, but how many people would think of migrating their wikis to us?
Dec 01 14:19:42 <~Prod>    i think.....
Dec 01 14:19:43 <Procyon>    Oh, were they really?
Dec 01 14:19:49 <Procyon>    That sucks :P
Dec 01 14:19:51 <DrBob>    I think that if we manage to merge in enough small gaming wikias, we might get some exposure for it
Dec 01 14:19:56 <Rocky>    lol
Dec 01 14:19:58 <Procyon>    I wish Wikia would just go away, but I guess that won't happen.
Dec 01 14:20:10 <Skizzerz>    DrBob: wikia just gained another big one yesterday or two days ago
Dec 01 14:20:11 <~Prod>    heh, or at least stay away from game guides
Dec 01 14:20:18 <DrBob>    The problem is that Wikia is very protective of their wikis; once one's been started, it's not going to be deleted, even if it merges with us
Dec 01 14:20:25 <Procyon>    I know,
Dec 01 14:20:33 <Procyon>    That's why it's more of a black hole than anything.
Dec 01 14:20:39 <Rocky>    they wanted bulbapedia
Dec 01 14:20:40 <DrBob>    The best we could do is merge them, then replace their main page with a soft redirect, but I don't suppose Wikia would like that either
Dec 01 14:20:48 <DrBob>    Skizzerz: What?
Dec 01 14:20:53 <~Prod>    yea, which one?
Dec 01 14:21:01 <~Prod>    ratchet and clank?
Dec 01 14:21:03 <Garrett>    egamia.
Dec 01 14:21:04 <Skizzerz>    Encyclopedia Gamia merged into the GameInfo wikia
Dec 01 14:21:05 <Procyon>    And I already presented the notion of bulbapedia.startegywiki.org to them, but they naturally were not interested.
Dec 01 14:21:20 <Procyon>    Oh yeah, I heard about that.
Dec 01 14:21:24 <Procyon>    I looked at their content...
Dec 01 14:21:26 <Procyon>    no big loss on that one.
Dec 01 14:21:37 <Procyon>    So far,
Dec 01 14:21:52 *    Garrett already imported all of egamia's walkthroughs. :P
Dec 01 14:21:53 <~Prod>    oh and wikia is probably going to continue trying to merge in game wikis as well
Dec 01 14:22:05 <Procyon>    our biggest competition in terms of other wikis (that are non-compendium), offer only scant information about games that you can largely find on WP already.
Dec 01 14:22:06 <DrBob>    Skizzerz: I always thought that should happen, since they were both pretty similar
Dec 01 14:22:07 <~Prod>    they have started a relationship with gamefaqs to link to their wiki guides
Dec 01 14:22:36 <~Prod>    http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/xbox360/data/926632.html
Dec 01 14:22:39 <~Prod>    note the wiki link at the top
Dec 01 14:22:43 <Skizzerz>    ick, this is featured? http://egamia.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_VII:_Dirge_of_Cerberus/walkthrough
Dec 01 14:22:52 <Rocky>    is there a way to easily make all of our extenal links on WP interwiki links with the template?
Dec 01 14:23:00 <DrBob>    Procyon: I don't think we should offer subdomains to partnership wikis; we should let them have their own style and community, and leave them to it. They'll flourish (because we should choose the right ones to partner with), and both wikis are happy
Dec 01 14:23:37 <Garrett>    Skizzerz: I SMELL GAMEFAQS
Dec 01 14:23:44 <Garrett>    ALSO MANUAL OCR
Dec 01 14:23:46 <Procyon>    DrBob: I'm only talking about if they need hosting.
Dec 01 14:24:13 <Garrett>    Rocky: someone with bot rights could crawl over them with AWB
Dec 01 14:24:33 <DrBob>    Procyon: hmmm...I suppose, but I still think it's best to let them have their own identity; if we didn't, we might as well have just merged them in
Dec 01 14:24:43 <Procyon>    I understand.
Dec 01 14:25:02 <Procyon>    The way I understand it though, a lot of wikis go to wikia for the free hosting :P
Dec 01 14:25:05 <DrBob>    Procyon: We could host them, but let them have their own domain name, and allow them easy escape. Anyway, this is highly theoretical :P
Dec 01 14:25:21 <Procyon>    I see.
Dec 01 14:25:23 <DrBob>    Yeah, so we need to make creating a guide on SW more attractive
Dec 01 14:25:36 <Procyon>    One concern I wanted to mention,
Dec 01 14:25:45 <Procyon>    was in addition to adding new content,
Dec 01 14:25:52 <Procyon>    are there any easy steps to increase SEO?
Dec 01 14:25:56 <DrBob>    We shouldn't be aiming to attract too much attention until we've got the server sorted out
Dec 01 14:26:09 <~Prod>    i think our seo is fine at the mement
Dec 01 14:26:11 <DrBob>    Procyon: Get lots of crosslinks from other important wikis; i.e., partnerships
Dec 01 14:26:13 <~Prod>    moment *
Dec 01 14:26:23 <Procyon>    Because I did a search for "Pac-Man guide" in Google, and we were number 2.  I did the same search for "Ms. Pac-Man guide", and we weren't even top 10.
Dec 01 14:26:31 <~Prod>    we have tons of good keywords on the pages
Dec 01 14:26:38 <~Prod>    it's just a matter of people linking to us properly
Dec 01 14:26:42 <Procyon>    I see.
Dec 01 14:26:42 <Garrett>    we don't have "FAQ" though. :P
Dec 01 14:27:04 <Procyon>    That is true
Dec 01 14:27:06 <~Prod>    chances are, people who search for FAQ are looking for our gf's
Dec 01 14:27:11 <~Prod>    i mean gf buddies :)
Dec 01 14:27:19 <DrBob>    eh?
Dec 01 14:27:26 <Garrett>    I'm looking for your girlfriend too.
Dec 01 14:27:42 <~Prod>    me too :(
Dec 01 14:28:02 <Procyon>    ok...
Dec 01 14:28:20 <Garrett>    beyond "FAQ", I don't know that there's any more SEO to be done.
Dec 01 14:28:21 <Procyon>    I think we're hitting upon a concentration limit.
Dec 01 14:28:34 <Skizzerz>    true, new topic?
Dec 01 14:28:39 <Procyon>    Garrett, is there a stealthy way to get FAQ on our site?
Dec 01 14:28:58 <Garrett>    well we could put it on with display:none or something :P
Dec 01 14:29:01 <Garrett>    but that's discouraged.
Dec 01 14:29:13 <Procyon>    How about in the name of competition?
Dec 01 14:29:26 <DrBob>    Garrett: Google notices such things, and comes down on you like a tonne of bricks
Dec 01 14:29:28 <Procyon>    "All's fair" sort of thing...
Dec 01 14:29:39 <DrBob>    mmm?
Dec 01 14:29:41 <Garrett>    DrBob: exactly.
Dec 01 14:29:45 <Procyon>    DrBob: Really?  How do they do that?
Dec 01 14:30:11 <Garrett>    if text is set to display:none, there are few legitimate reasons to do so
Dec 01 14:30:17 <Procyon>    I see.
Dec 01 14:30:18 <DrBob>    Procyon: Google magic, involving various blunt instruments, goose grease and turpentine
Dec 01 14:30:19 <Garrett>    so that sets off warning bells at Google HQ
Dec 01 14:30:24 <Garrett>    also that.
Dec 01 14:30:25 <Procyon>    lol
Dec 01 14:30:40 <~Prod>    though we already have tons of display:none stuff
Dec 01 14:30:45 <~Prod>    though we have a "show" button with it
Dec 01 14:30:46 <Procyon>    OK, in the interest of time, let's aim to wrap this meeting up shortly.
Dec 01 14:31:06 <Skizzerz>    sure
Dec 01 14:31:17 <Procyon>    Prod, did you want to address our MW version?
Dec 01 14:31:28 <~Prod>    can't do much about that without echelon
Dec 01 14:31:29 <Notmyhandle>    I think Strategy is like the most common hit we have on SW
Dec 01 14:31:38 <Notmyhandle>    but we need guide/walkthrough associated with SW as well
Dec 01 14:31:41 <~Prod>    we're going to try and do the update this weekend some time if he has the time
Dec 01 14:31:42 <Notmyhandle>    I mean on google
Dec 01 14:31:48 <DrBob>    Procyon: Basically, we need shell access to do it
Dec 01 14:31:49 <~Prod>    (Notmyhandle): they're there too
Dec 01 14:31:55 <Procyon>    OK.
Dec 01 14:32:03 <Skizzerz>    DrBob: not necessarily, but it makes life easier
Dec 01 14:32:17 <DrBob>    A heck of a lot easier
Dec 01 14:32:35 <~Prod>    especially since there are schema changes in the db for this update
Dec 01 14:32:42 <Procyon>    Then if there's nothing more to address on that topic,
Dec 01 14:32:50 <Skizzerz>    perhaps http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Upgrading_to_1.11#Alternative_1:_phpShell
Dec 01 14:32:56 <Procyon>    would anyone else like to address anything else before we adjourn?
Dec 01 14:32:59 <~Prod>    yes
Dec 01 14:33:04 <Skizzerz>    yes, echelon needs to show up more
Dec 01 14:33:12 *    Prod goes back to the console dropdown momentarily
Dec 01 14:33:21 <Procyon>    lol
Dec 01 14:33:34 <Skizzerz>    code an extension for it :)
Dec 01 14:33:43 <~Prod>    we can add the dropdown to the skin directly as a form element, and we can have it load the data from a mediawiki message
Dec 01 14:33:50 <~Prod>    no extension needed
Dec 01 14:33:55 *    Skizzerz would prefer the message
Dec 01 14:33:58 <Garrett>    that's the ideal way to do it
Dec 01 14:34:10 <DrBob>    +1 Prod
Dec 01 14:34:12 <Garrett>    especially if we need to add the "Dreamcast 2" or something.
Dec 01 14:34:23 *    Prod chuckles inwardly
Dec 01 14:34:30 *    Procyon almost fainted at the thought of a DC2...
Dec 01 14:35:07 <Notmyhandle>    +1 prod = poke?
Dec 01 14:35:12 <~Prod>    so people support the dropdown?
Dec 01 14:35:23 <Procyon>    You know, I honestly think that if Sega tried to launch something like that today, they'd actually do very well against the PS3.
Dec 01 14:35:24 <Rocky>    yeh
Dec 01 14:35:30 <DrBob>    Vaguely
Dec 01 14:35:31 <IsaacGS>    lol
Dec 01 14:35:41 <~Prod>    (Procyon): you me and teddy will have to work out where to put it if we want that dj logo there
Dec 01 14:35:46 <Rocky>    oh
Dec 01 14:35:52 <Rocky>    what did u want to put there?
Dec 01 14:35:55 <Procyon>    Prod: let's be honest, you're talking about something like what GF has, correct?
Dec 01 14:36:01 <~Prod>    maybe......
Dec 01 14:36:03 <DrBob>    The thing is that once a user's got past the main page and is looking at a guide, I don't think they'll want to choose another system
Dec 01 14:36:04 <Procyon>    Prod: I believe ness wants to be involved as well.
Dec 01 14:36:22 <DrBob>    I think it would be a once-per-visit thing, and so does fine on the main page
Dec 01 14:36:35 <~Prod>    is there something else we could use?
Dec 01 14:36:35 <DrBob>    I won't fight putting one up though
Dec 01 14:36:45 <Procyon>    Neither will I
Dec 01 14:36:49 <~Prod>    dropdown to somewhere else?
Dec 01 14:37:00 <DrBob>    You just want a dropdown there, don't you? XD
Dec 01 14:37:03 <~Prod>    perhaps genres?
Dec 01 14:37:03 <Procyon>    CategorY:Systems?
Dec 01 14:37:21 <Procyon>    no to the genres... to inspecific.
Dec 01 14:37:23 <Procyon>    too...
Dec 01 14:37:37 <DrBob>    Our genre categories are pretty useless at the moment
Dec 01 14:37:43 <~Prod>    yea
Dec 01 14:37:51 <~Prod>    though genres aren't properly defined anywhere....
Dec 01 14:37:54 <Procyon>    You'll start arguments like "Zelda in an RPG!" "No, Zelda is Adventure!" "No, Zelda is Action!"
Dec 01 14:38:15 <~Prod>    that's where [[Action adventure]] came from :P
Dec 01 14:38:23 <Procyon>    lol, I know ^_^
Dec 01 14:38:32 <~Prod>    ok, so my last topic
Dec 01 14:38:39 <~Prod>    we now have ABXY working nicely
Dec 01 14:38:41 *    Prod cheers
Dec 01 14:38:45 <Procyon>    Oh yes, thank you Prod.
Dec 01 14:39:07 <Procyon>    Big Kudos to Echelon and Teddy for working on it over Thanksgiving break.
Dec 01 14:39:32 <DrBob>    :)
Dec 01 14:40:20 <~Prod>    now the topic is good interlinking
Dec 01 14:40:45 <~Prod>    i noticed http://abxy.org/?p=7 is up
Dec 01 14:41:01 <~Prod>    so I'm thinking we can start linking to the reviews from the infoboxes
Dec 01 14:41:12 <Procyon>    oh wow, I like that
Dec 01 14:41:43 <Procyon>    That's an excellent idea Prod
Dec 01 14:41:54 <Procyon>    We should encourage stuff like that between the two sites.
Dec 01 14:42:05 <~Prod>    we'll just need a cleaner way of doing it than manual infobox additions
Dec 01 14:42:21 <Procyon>    abxy template?
Dec 01 14:42:43 <~Prod>    i was thinking a php script that will convert game names to articles
Dec 01 14:42:52 <DrBob>    How would that work?
Dec 01 14:42:54 <Procyon>    even better
Dec 01 14:43:14 <~Prod>    something like abxy.org/review.php?game={{PAGENAME}}
Dec 01 14:43:25 <~Prod>    which would automatically redirect to the proper review page
Dec 01 14:43:47 <Procyon>    Then we'd have to be very careful about consistant names.
Dec 01 14:43:53 <~Prod>    exactly
Dec 01 14:44:01 <~Prod>    which we are trying on the SW side
Dec 01 14:44:10 <DrBob>    How would it know which review page to redirect to?
Dec 01 14:44:11 <Procyon>    That's why I always refer to (although I dread to mention it here) GF for official names.
Dec 01 14:44:22 <~Prod>    (DrBob): at the moment, I'm thinking manual list :/
Dec 01 14:44:23 <Procyon>    If GF is good for one thing right now, it's an excellent database.
Dec 01 14:44:33 <~Prod>    i use multiple sources
Dec 01 14:44:43 <~Prod>    wp, gf and the official page if it exists
Dec 01 14:44:55 <~Prod>    we should be going by official page whenever we can
Dec 01 14:45:01 <Procyon>    true
Dec 01 14:45:11 <DrBob>    Prod: How is that any better than having the article ID in the infobox?
Dec 01 14:45:20 <Procyon>    Although in the case of my retrogaming guides, that's usually not an option ^_^
Dec 01 14:45:24 <~Prod>    (DrBob): anyone can delete/change the id
Dec 01 14:45:24 <DrBob>    It just means you have to edit *two* places, instead of one
Dec 01 14:45:36 <Notmyhandle>    can abxy have multiple reviews?
Dec 01 14:45:38 <DrBob>    Anyone can delete/change any number of things; we just have to pick it up
Dec 01 14:45:41 <Notmyhandle>    for 1 game
Dec 01 14:45:53 <Notmyhandle>    cuz we could have a disambig page basically
Dec 01 14:45:56 <Notmyhandle>    that lists them all
Dec 01 14:46:10 <~Prod>    i don't think we should worry about that for now
Dec 01 14:46:16 <~Prod>    these reviews are by our staff
Dec 01 14:46:18 <~Prod>    or rather
Dec 01 14:46:20 <~Prod>    abxy staff
Dec 01 14:46:23 <~Prod>    not just any reviews
Dec 01 14:46:23 <DrBob>    How about we enable pretty URLs in Wordpress, and then use that as the basis for linking?
Dec 01 14:46:40 <DrBob>    It would mean that all reviews have to have a consistent title format, though
Dec 01 14:46:46 <Procyon>    Prod: but this could make way for game reviews similar to GF's
Dec 01 14:46:56 <~Prod>    in which way?
Dec 01 14:47:10 <Procyon>    GF hosts user reviews
Dec 01 14:47:30 <~Prod>    we can do that too, it's just that we'd need someone to do the custom development
Dec 01 14:47:39 <Procyon>    true
Dec 01 14:48:43 <Garrett>    I think a forum would be a bigger draw, really.
Dec 01 14:48:51 <~Prod>    forums.abxy.org
Dec 01 14:48:56 <Procyon>    That's true, but it's also more work to implement.
Dec 01 14:49:02 <Procyon>    (on a game by game basis)
Dec 01 14:49:08 <~Prod>    i talked to teddy about that
Dec 01 14:49:15 <~Prod>    and he brought up some notable concerns
Dec 01 14:49:24 <~Prod>    we just don't have the manpower to manage that many forums yet
Dec 01 14:49:29 <~Prod>    and it would separate people too much
Dec 01 14:49:37 <Garrett>    we wouldn't do anything like GF
Dec 01 14:49:40 <Garrett>    theirs is too fragmented.
Dec 01 14:49:52 <Procyon>    Yeah, I think system forums are sufficient for now.
Dec 01 14:50:09 <Garrett>    echelon's current plan is to link to abxy's forums and add a few SW-specific editing etc. sections
Dec 01 14:50:28 <Procyon>    That would be a great addition
Dec 01 14:50:58 <~Prod>    the problem is games that are on multiple platforms
Dec 01 14:51:23 <Procyon>    Let's cross that bridge when we get closer to it :)
Dec 01 14:51:26 <Garrett>    initially, there will be no direct link to any particular system
Dec 01 14:51:31 <Procyon>    I think the meeting has generally run out of steam.
Dec 01 14:51:44 <Procyon>    We brought up a lot of excellent points and good discussion.
Dec 01 14:52:07 <Procyon>    So in the interest of letting everyone get on with their weekend, I say we draw this meeting to a close for now.
Dec 01 14:52:16 <Procyon>    I want to thank everyone for attending.
Dec 01 14:52:24 *    Garrett has quit (Quit: OBJECTION!)
Dec 01 14:52:43 <Procyon>    I'm really greatful to be involved in a project of this magnitude with people who are so dedicated.
Dec 01 14:52:59 <Procyon>    I imagine what these meetings will be like in 5 years from now :)
Dec 01 14:53:33 <Procyon>    The next meeting will be, in all likelihood, after New Years.
Dec 01 14:53:52 <Procyon>    But we'll continue to communicate through CI and Staff Lounge.
Dec 01 14:54:10 <Procyon>    DrBob, if you want to address IM contacts back in #strategywiki, be my guest.
Dec 01 14:54:14 <~Prod>    I would also like to suggest that any sysops enable emailing in their profiles
Dec 01 14:54:25 <DrBob>    Could I do it here, actually?
Dec 01 14:54:36 <Procyon>    We'd like to increase the level of communication between key members.
Dec 01 14:54:39 <Procyon>    Absolutely.
Dec 01 14:54:41 <DrBob>    Since sysops might not want their IM details going to the slightly-more-general public
Dec 01 14:54:48 <DrBob>    ===============LOG STOPS HERE============================